Build Testing

[Dazrield]

Hijacking this from a hijacked thread:

* A sandpit area where you can try out builds. Yes you can do this offline, however given the numerous class, race, spell, feat and token changes it's very hard for a noob to get it right. There is a really steep learning curve here and it took me years to catch up to everyone else. Not a great incentive for the newcomer.

This idea get overlooked? Thought it was by far the best idea mentioned.. yet didn't see one comment on it other than mine :/

even though the server is listed in PW Action...it was based on a storyline. making a sandbox to auto lvl your chars for testing....goes against any type of storyline at all. you might as well be an arena server after that.

I'm really not sure I understand the difference between someone who's been here for years building a char on paper and someone who doesn't know everything about the server using a tool to accomplish the same thing w/o having to scrap char after char due to mistakes. I wish I knew how to code and stuff so I could write in some of the things here ingame like with subraces, weapon, and class changes so I could test my builds offline w/o messing up.

How about offering some sort of offline module that would allow us to test builds with the changes coded in?

[Alkapwn]

I've done some coding with my offline mods and its just way to time consuming. Wiki + Player interaction seems the best way to train newbs IMO. Online RL XP and PvP seems the best way to keep a player interested in our server as opposed to instant Auto-Knowledge like many other not so successful pvp mods.

[Dazrield]

Seems to me it's got about half the population as it did a year ago or so. I only knew of 2-3 dual loggers at that time.. now we've got half the people and I know of 3-4 dual loggers and I'm pretty sure I saw cross quad logging(at least there were 4 chars on named cross). Back then there were a lot more parties running, which made it easier for the new comer to level with people and learn areas.

Saw a player join about the same time I came back.. was playing out of AO. Was gonna be a dragon or something. Messed up that build, and could never find a party and had lots of problems with not understanding the building and/or server dynamics/areas/gear. Then moved onto SL. Same issues, haven't seen that player back.

I've heard that it's kept this way on a couple of occasions to keep competitive players in and the others out. But stop me if I'm wrong.. won't the PvP'ers pretty much take care of that part on their own if non-competitive players build here? I guess if other people get something out of me mis-building or remaking my chars repeatedly.. then I'm happy to help them get whatever it is they needed. Frankly, it does little for me or teaching me how to build. Just means I misread or overlooked something something that I forgot to edit in on my module.

[Alkapwn]

Feel free to PM or get me ingame (on the rare occasions)to talk about builds. Always happy to oblige anyone to my vast amounts of accumulated knowledge about our little server

[Dazrield]

I ask people stuff all the time.. the problems arise when I keep getting different answers.. or I forget the right answer. I still don't know of epic warding is based on char level or caster level. I've been told caster level twice, and char level 3 times. Heck, when I started asking questions about a piece of armor I got 3 different answers from 3 different devs/mods. I thanked all of them anyways of course :p

[mining]

I ask people stuff all the time.. the problems arise when I keep getting different answers.. or I forget the right answer. I still don't know of epic warding is based on char level or caster level. I've been told caster level twice, and char level 3 times. Heck, when I started asking questions about a piece of armor I got 3 different answers from 3 different devs/mods. I thanked all of them anyways of course :p

Ewarding is char level based.

The issue with that piece of armor is that the NS4 drops system is ridiculously confusing to find a quick answer, and drop rates for artifacts is sufficiently low that it could just be that nobody who posted in that topic has seen it.

[dethonlegs]

I'm sure the regulars here know enough to build most toons, however the new player has a pretty huge hurdle to jump.

I've used in-game sandboxes and server specific offline mods for all server types - not just PVP. They are really useful for the noob and regular alike.

My typical pre-build activities involve spending a whole heap of time researching NS4 wiki, NWN wiki, NS4 forums, in game chat and generic offline mods to come up with something I think may work. Spending months leveling a build just to find out you made a mistake somewhere can be very discouraging - especially if that something is NS specific and not documented anywhere.

Things may be different if leveling time is drastically reduced but I don't see that ever happening.

I've done my time here and can get by with the knowledge I have but I don't think the same can be said for newcomers.

[Rufio]

Also, use this: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=ot ... ail&id=856 for mapping out builds in excel if you aren't already. It will keep you from making any illegal builds, has all the class feats and skills stored so you don't have to always know them, lets you map out your skill point progression, and auto-calculates naked stats and spell slots. You just have to do final stat calculations yourself to account for gear and buffs, and you kind of have to hack the file a little to add subraces and book bonuses. There is a guide for adding races in the file on the race tab of you want to do so.

[Bargeld]

CBC is my tool of choice

For those that have concerns about new players having all of the NS specific info available to them in order to make informed build decisions... Give up now! The exact scenario that Daz stated above is going to happen to a new player regardless of how much information you put out there. The casual players don't want to go memorize all the specifics of this server before they make a toon. This is why most vets make the suggestion that a new player create a pure barb or fighter or a melee or pure clc as their first toons on the server. It allows them to play, survive, and even get gear for future builds. But once that player has one or two toons at 40, they will rarely come back to that first build to actually play it. It WILL have flaws that they overlooked, and by lvl 35-38 it will probably be abandoned because that player has learned enough to make a new toon that is cooler and better built (at least in their eyes )

[Rufio]

I still give up on builds, rework old builds, and am constantly having to look things up. There is too much stuff to memorize all of it, I just try to memorize the things that are important to my builds.

[Shadowalker]

Memorized today.. tweaked tonight.. confused tomorrow.. embrace the chaos for it can not be stoped.

[Bargeld]

Memorized today.. tweaked tonight.. confused tomorrow.. embrace the chaos for it can not be stoped.

qft

[Blystos Re]

...or just accept that not every toon is going to be 100% perfect the first time.

...Unless you're Shamed.

[Rufio]

Even shamed went back and rebuilt the last few levels on Judgement.

tip: if you are unsure about something on a build, put it as late in the build as possible. That way if you decide you want to change later, it is a lot easier to de-level and rebuild those features.

[mining]

Even shamed went back and rebuilt the last few levels on Judgement.

tip: if you are unsure about something on a build, put it as late in the build as possible. That way if you decide you want to change later, it is a lot easier to de-level and rebuild those features.

He mucked up Judgement once then mucked me up when I made Rozsudek. I think Al was the first to get the damn order right? Hehehe