Water plane overhaul

[Nyeleni]

-Tweaked some of the monsters in Plane of Water to make the difficulty more in line with the other elemental planes

Could you look into the Sahuagin? The harpooners have real true seeing. Not sure if that is intended. And the barons still hit through all the immunities.
Btw. haven't noticed any nerfing of the water plane. But maybe you made it more dangerous?

[LinuxPup]

I've just made some additional changes to curb down the harpooner and baron difficulty

[Nyeleni]

Much appreciated. As long as curb down really is less dangerous .

[Daral0085]

Well in the announcement he didn't actually say he made it easier. Maybe he thinks earth plane is incredibly deadly and needed to bump up water plane to match it?

[LinuxPup]

I can't see how reducing the damage the monsters do and decreasing their damage immunity/resistance would make it more difficult

[mining]

I can't see how reducing the damage the monsters do and decreasing their damage immunity/resistance would make it more difficult

Thing is, small adjustments mean a lot, but are hard to notice.

[Ajantis.]

I still feel a slight increase in CR in water plane (and perhaps Air Plane as well) would be desirous, for several reasons:

1. Considerably more remote than other planes. Fire & Earth are visited more often, because of their proximity to Dwarves, and they are relatively easy and quick to get too.

2. Difficulty. Even with the mob nerfs, if significant, the need for air bladders, and on certain maps, its hard to see the mobs when your under a foot of water, not to mention the drops they leave.

3. Slow pace at XP. Many players don't want to go to water and air planes because its faster to gain xp by killing mobs with a slightly lower CR in areas like Skara, Amazons or even IOD, then to slowly grind out kills in water and air planes. For some reason, Earth and Fire plane's kill-rate/CR are more balanced and adventuring parties are more inclined to go there.

4. Mob Loot. Water and air plane's drops aren't all that impressive. I suppose neither are earth and fire planes, but anecdotally, everyone seems to equip Fire and Earth plane equipment in favor of Ice/Air plane equipment. Likely because of the frequency of the visits to those planes and therefore more plentiful, but nevertheless, it seems to be the case.


Water plane is my favorite place because of the variety of mobs there. Elemental, Undead, Outsider, etc... all with different weapon types and challenges. Its also so unique and beautifully laid out. Personally, I'm indifferent when it comes to the need for XP, since I have over ten lvl 40s and the urge to get another toon to 40 as quick as possible doesn't exist for me anymore, the journey to 40 is more worthwhile to me. I like PvM, and when I want to do PvP, I have a collection of 40s to choose from. This isn't the case for others, and I can sympathize with those who want to get there as quick as they can with the limited time they have to play. But I think giving more choices for places to go for it would enhance the aging server, and relieve the "grind" many seem to despise.

[Daral0085]

For some reason, Earth and Fire plane's kill-rate/CR are more balanced and adventuring parties are more inclined to go there.

Personally, I tend to avoid earth and fire planes as well because all the mobs are crit-immune. Compared to skara (nearly same CR), molemen (same CR) or dwarves/goblins (much higher CR), the elemental planes are just not worth it at almost any level range. Since they're all crit immune, that means that rog/hipser types and stunners are all worthless there. WMs are less useful (especially dexer WMs) and it hurts anything that uses physical really.

AFAICT there aren't very many reasons to go to an elemental plane compared to molemen. Lacking an open lock toon is one, wanting diversity is another... maybe you need a level 25 scythe so you kill incinerateds... that's about it.

I understand and respect that other people like to fight in the elemental planes, it's just that numerically it doesn't seem to stack up against the alternatives. Perhaps the one exception to this is with an implosion cleric you can run around nuking fire/earth guardians and rack up a decent amount of XP that way. But then you can do the same thing in goblins with an even higher CR.

[LinuxPup]

Once you get an XP train going, I've found it matters less what plane you go to... water plane has been the least popular plane (except maybe shadow plane or HoK?). Some planes just serve as diverse places for fun despite less XP... HoK is clearly not as hack n slash as others due to the puzzles, but I had fun making them and hope players might find them fun. Running the same area over and over gets old, not to everyone, but to some folks.

I could have bumped up the CR... but I thought it odd that one elemental plane would be so disproportional to the rest. The goal is to make it about the same as the others... I guess if you consider Plane of Shadows an elemental plane, then its definitely the toughest IMO.

[Ajantis.]

I figured CR equality between the 4 planes (well.. 5 if you include shadow plane) would make sense to want to have. There just are some mitigating circumstances that the server culture and design possess that make having some differentiation in CR just as valid.

Shadow Plane have some really nice drops, that make the area more palatable for adventuring.

An Xp train in the Air Plane is not practical with the narrow bridges.

[Bargeld]

I guess if you consider Plane of Shadows an elemental plane, then its definitely the toughest IMO.

Un-counterable dispels. And lots of them. And hipsing. And neg damage auras. Ouch. I love it

At least the gear there is useful. Darkstar ammie, Royal shadow cloak, +5 robes with hide on em, mage staves, +5 mstar. Compared to the traditional elemental planes, it's much more worthy. But rarely is it a leveling area, more of an adventure/mass gear run.

The only toons that sit below lvl 30 and continue to use 25 gear are crafters @ 29. Other than that, you don't need anything fancy gear-wise at that level, you go through it fast enough that you are at 30 before it matters. The gear that drops in the traditional elemental planes is 90% junk mainly because other gear is superior to it. There are a few exceptions with a couple boss items, but those are mostly lvl 30 anyway. I was looking for sorc robes and knew mistress of air had some with slots, so we took a little group in and spent way too long navigating the maze of bridges till we finally got to her, killed her, and i discovered 25% vuln on them that I had forgotten about. That's when a group member mentioned that all the elem boss armors had a vuln on them. There's just no real reason to go there except out of adventure/curiousity/difference.

And you aren't supposed to grind molemen, its only 1 map if you can OL. If you can OL and search you get 2 maps... whoopdie. Take a level 40 there solo, farm a few rock smashers and rags, then get outta dodge

[Alkapwn]

Earth and Fire are great for soloing. Steady xp with lots of maps. Molemen are terrible. good fast xp but 1-2 maps thats like 15 mins of leveling then the spawn is worn out. Forcing the spawn on those maps is a real pain and not to mention frowned upon by the Gods. Not always pleasent when Emporer Terra shows up when yer unbuffed to give you a couple smacks with a heavy flail.
Air/Water planes are alright even the Tempest isnt bad at all if you build is decent and properly geared.
I've done a couple runs going from Earth-DH-Fire-HoK-Water-FH-Air hitting all the bosses and they've been quite fun. Bring a newbie along , see the sights. It doesnt always have to be about xp/time ratio. Where's your spirit of adventure guys?

[mining]

Note Well: Molemen are great when you're playing something that needs to take it slower, i.e. a lot of shifters preepic forms, it also compares to old UE for fast XP when you finish a chapter in your novel.

[Daral0085]

I find it a pretty good leveling area if you swap between the two maps, especially when your toon levels are lower, like e.g. 25-29 range so you have to go slower because it's dangerous but you get tremendous XP per kill.