Pure Prestige classes

[MM_wpo]

A lot of the prestige classes get a nice bonus if they are 'Pure' prc's, like the PM uber summon and RDD dragon shape at level 30.
The other 10 classes of base classes are not fixed and are used to cheese up the build.

I would like to see that the pure prc's have only one base class, like the shifter.
I see the following base classes for the Prc's:
pure pm = wizard
pure rdd = sorcerer
pure assassin = rogue
pure cot = paladin
pure wm = fighter
pure sd = monk
pure aa = bard
pure bg = ranger
pure dd = barbarian

If you have another class in your build you don't get the lvl 30 bonus ( so no uber summon for pm, no immunities for dd, no elder wyrm for rdd) other bonusses still apply.

This would change a lot of builds on the server, i know .
But that happens all the time.

[BlkMamba]

That would take out the heart of the game,
Pure should not completely overpower creativity....ever
unfortunately it does thou still yet

Alot of adjustments i'm sure are comeing in the furture

Mamba..

[diddy33]

A lot of the prestige classes get a nice bonus if they are 'Pure' prc's, like the PM uber summon and RDD dragon shape at level 30.
The other 10 classes of base classes are not fixed and are used to cheese up the build.

I would like to see that the pure prc's have only one base class, like the shifter.
I see the following base classes for the Prc's:
pure pm = wizard
pure rdd = sorcerer
pure assassin = rogue
pure cot = paladin
pure wm = fighter
pure sd = monk
pure aa = bard
pure bg = ranger
pure dd = barbarian

If you have another class in your build you don't get the lvl 30 bonus ( so no uber summon for pm, no immunities for dd, no elder wyrm for rdd) other bonusses still apply.

This would change a lot of builds on the server, i know .
But that happens all the time.

can't do a pure dd = barbarian

[Cijah]

pure bg = ranger
pure dd = barbarian

swap these around i.e pure dd = ranger (so it can be made in RK) and pure bg = barbarian (so it can be made in SL since they can't have rangers)

[VagaStorm]

DD Requirements:
To qualify as a dwarven defender, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria:
Alignment: any lawful

Besides, pally is more in the spirrit of a dwarven defender anyways. I vote only pallys for dd from now on :p

[arvut]

Yeah, this seems like a nice idea. I suggested something for the RDD in the Dragons thread earlier. To build on this I'd like to see that some changes were made to the whole class/prc deal, limiting some more PrC's to factions would add a more unique feeling to the world. Or that some PrC's were made stronger in some factions by granting them bonuses and such.

Something like;

Rangers in TC
Harpers in NC
Blackguards in SL
Wizards in MA
Fighters in RK
Barbarians in AO

About CoT's and Paladins, those already have one of the best bonuses in game... smite evil.
And fighter WM's are most likely more common than any other WM combo, same thing with rogue and assassin.
Something that doesn't naturally boost the build is what I think needs a boost. Pure Sorc RDD and Wiz PM is probably the ones that really need it.

Something I'd like to see when it comes to harpers however is a change so that Intelligence also works for the DC on sleep, and if combined with wizard, then you should craft potions that boosts Int and the cha buff should be changed to add Int aswell. Not sure if this is possible though as those are feats and I know some feats are quite hardcoded...

[Daltian]

That would take out the heart of the game,
Pure should not completely overpower creativity....ever
unfortunately it does thou still yet

Alot of adjustments i'm sure are comeing in the furture

Mamba..

Then lets remove the need for shifter with epic shapes to be druid only. RDD that was never suposed to shift can do it without need for wisdom being 30 and can mix in any class in it. Shifter on the other hand has wisdom perquisites and cant mix any clases in it which prevents it to get discipline (which among other things makes bigsby a shifter killer), weapon focuses since most shapes have weapons druid/shifter can't use, evasion, uncanny dodge, .... , and add to that the fact that elemental shape is still much beter and far more versatile then any epic shifter will ever be due to the same reasons and readily available to our enemies.

[Daltian]

About CoT's and Paladins, those already have one of the best bonuses in game... smite evil..

Yes, I am gonna lvl a class to lvl 40 so I can smite evil 3 times a day, and can miss due to: enemy not being evil, epic dodge (first try always misses), concealment or just plain luck (roll a 1 or a low attack roll on really high ac).

Isn't it easyer just to make an AA and always hit?

[arvut]

... and godly buffs not seen anywhere else!!

Lol come on slaan, look on the bright side for once

[BlkMamba]

That would take out the heart of the game,
Pure should not completely overpower creativity....ever
unfortunately it does thou still yet

Alot of adjustments i'm sure are comeing in the furture

Mamba..

Then lets remove the need for shifter with epic shapes to be druid only. RDD that was never suposed to shift can do it without need for wisdom being 30 and can mix in any class in it. Shifter on the other hand has wisdom perquisites and cant mix any clases in it which prevents it to get discipline (which among other things makes bigsby a shifter killer), weapon focuses since most shapes have weapons druid/shifter can't use, evasion, uncanny dodge, .... , and add to that the fact that elemental shape is still much beter and far more versatile then any epic shifter will ever be due to the same reasons and readily available to our enemies.

Been there done that
guess you wasnt around with all the 86ac shadow dancing Dragon Monks
thats why its limited
have a nice day, other than some tweakings PrC's are fine

Mamba..

[Daltian]

That would take out the heart of the game,
Pure should not completely overpower creativity....ever
unfortunately it does thou still yet

Alot of adjustments i'm sure are comeing in the furture

Mamba..

Then lets remove the need for shifter with epic shapes to be druid only. RDD that was never suposed to shift can do it without need for wisdom being 30 and can mix in any class in it. Shifter on the other hand has wisdom perquisites and cant mix any clases in it which prevents it to get discipline (which among other things makes bigsby a shifter killer), weapon focuses since most shapes have weapons druid/shifter can't use, evasion, uncanny dodge, .... , and add to that the fact that elemental shape is still much beter and far more versatile then any epic shifter will ever be due to the same reasons and readily available to our enemies.

Been there done that
guess you wasnt around with all the 86ac shadow dancing Dragon Monks
thats why its limited
have a nice day, other than some tweakings PrC's are fine

Mamba..

You might want to check the date by my name. Been here for a bit more then you.

And just to educate you a bit, you can not take SD lvls with shifter, 1 PrC limit makes sure of that.

And why wouldn't I get monk lvls with my shifter if you can with your rdd, afterall we would both lose wisdom AC when we shift, or we were suposed to but some of your pretious RDD's exploited it for a long time and kept the wisdom AC.

[MLoki]

Been there done that
guess you wasnt around with all the 86ac shadow dancing Dragon Monks
thats why its limited
have a nice day, other than some tweakings PrC's are fine

Mamba..

You might want to check the date by my name. Been here for a bit more then you.

And just to educate you a bit, you can not take SD lvls with shifter, 1 PrC limit makes sure of that.

And why wouldn't I get monk lvls with my shifter if you can with your rdd, afterall we would both lose wisdom AC when we shift, or we were suposed to but some of your pretious RDD's exploited it for a long time and kept the wisdom AC.

Does that mean you don't remember Dragon Druid Monk SDs running rampant.. err... sitting around Avendel? Gizmaluke was one for sure but I know there were other similiar builds. It's really too bad I never logged into the forums the first year or so that I was playing NS4 but I am sure others might not have been in the forums from day one as well.

[Daltian]

I obviously have been here from day one so saying that I havent seen something because I am new is a bit silly. And yes I have seed hipsing dragons, killed a lot by them too. But shifter can not be a hipsing dragon, shifter is prc and there is a limit to 1 prc per character.

My point is that shifter code changed a lot from those times. Shifter needing to remain pure is a relic from old times and I strongly belive it needs to be adressed.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

I think one of the worst things NS4 has is Pure Class Bonuses. For me, the great thing about DnD is the mixing of classes. Its why this game is more enticing to me than WoW. And yet here on NS4, in the spirit of balance, you are rewarded for having less creativity. "Stay generic and get pure class bonuses."

Pure class bonuses (seeming to me) have been implemented to improve classes that were underpowered. But why shouldn't a 25 lvl barbarian gain some bonuses too. They only gain those powers if they stay pure? Each one of Pure Class Bonuses these has made building that class now pretty boring.

Take Bards now. The bump of +2 ab, ac, and saves to bard song was nice but only if a bard stayed pure. That change made every potential 30Bard, 5____ 5 ____ a lot less interesting. This resulted in a number of generic Dex based Gith Bards with basically the same starting stats, feat selection and skill set. Boring. Now I believe that Lokey has reduced that bonus. I have a pure Bard so it hurt me too but I will like the change because it doesn't quite force you to stay pure. Adding back a little of the creativity for Bards.

Same problem with Paladin, Fighter and Barbarian. Its amazing how often multiple players come up with almost the same exact build for these classes. I thought of trying a Dex/Con based 28 Barbarian 6____ 6____. Props to Nyeleni for making Lilla Thistle. It wasn't so much that the build was really awesome but it was very cool. I wanted to try something similar but the more I calculated, giving up on the pure bonuses was too big of a loss. Then once I had decided to go "pure" I was giving up other things because I was dex based. So I started a Str Based Pure Barbarian and it happens to be the only build I've given up on in more than a year. I just got bored with it.

Personally, I think the bonuses to Ranger were the best ones. They were modest bonuses. You get some nice perks at various levels and don't lose them if mix other classes in. Therefore, there are a lot of interesting Ranger builds.

I like the bonuses but I think they should have different requirements other than being pure. Like 30 levels paladin and 16 base con in order to get the DR. To get Epic Divine Might / Shield must 25 levels of Paladin and Extend Spell. To get the Immune to KD have 35 Paladin and Epic Skill Focus Discipline.

I'm not asking for a rework of the existing ones. I would just prefer that new development of bonuses to classes didn't stiffle the creativity of the player.

**I'm not saying that Dex based Pure Palys and Fighters and Barbs don't exist. You can make them but the bonuses limit you. So basically, the idea says, "Let's have a bunch more generic builds." <--- I'm just not a fan.

- Glow -

[Nyeleni]

Err, Lilia Thistle was a str based ghostwise halfling. Sry to shatter your opinion. Only drawback, she couldn't use a scythe .