half troll subrace (revisited)

[Wolfarus]

i brought this up a long time ago, so i thought id shoot it out again, with some modifications.

Half-Troll

Half-Orc subrace
Any alignment but lawfull
Fav'd Class : fighter (we have 1 for barbs, so lets make a fighter one)
str +2 / con +4 / dex +2 / wis, int -2, cha -4.
Troll-kin curse : fire / acid vuln 10%, increases to 20% at lvl 20
+1 regen at lvl 9, +2 at 16, +3 at 20, +4 at 25 and finally +5 at 30
Ecl: +2

While its obviously a near-dream for builds that intent do be pure, uncomplicated tanks, the will save and skill point loss, combined with the elemental vulnerabilites and +2 ecl balances it out better then the first time i suggested it. the huge drag on cha makes it a really bad choice for bg's, and umd-obsessed rogues, sorcs and to a lesser extent, barbs.

The regen may seem a tad excessive once you get into the later stages, especially paired with the gear that gives regen (so a regen of +10 is possible) but by that time, they should be getting into planar area's, and the damage output there more or less cancels the benefit of that much regen.

[--Ashe--]

Considering such a subrace could conceivably eliminate the fire vuln issue by going RDD (10), doesn't seem quite fair factoring the free regen. Why not just have 50% vuln to acid and fire. Possibly add some way that fire and acid damage hinder the racial regen. Perhaps allow troll kin a means to pass disease or have a miasma/disease aura (work the pestilence angle).

[Wolfarus]

Or simply have that particular half-race unavailabe to AO. Not sure how that would be worked, but its a thought. 50% vuln is way too much, unless you START with that big of a vulnerability and gradually improve it to only 20% by the time you hit level 30. Even so, 1.5 times the damage from fire or acid is too much in the other direction, i think.

Or, if there is a way to do it (and further balance it out, if people think the stats and regen are still too much for ecl of +2) maybe make it that fire dam "sticks" with the char for -x- amount of rounds after the initial contact, much like acid already does

[Amoenotep]

ecl +3 with 25% vuln fire/acid...since its only half troll

[Wolfarus]

isnt +3 a bit much, even with the regen? its primary stat boost is 2 less then what you'd get with half ogre (which is only ecl 1)

maybe take out the +2 to dex, bump the acid / fire up to 25%, and ecl 2 would fit better.

And maybe it an LA-only subrace, so we can get something neat for our very own

[Amoenotep]

we have formulas...regen+bonuses would warrant a +3 ecl

[--Ashe--]

LA only... ewwww

[Wolfarus]

Since ecl of +3 is the highest drag on leveling we have in ns4, id like to see str raised to 4 then. so we have +4 str / +4 con, -2 on wis, int and -4 on cha, along with the elemental vuln. taking out the +2 dex, moving acid/fire vuln to a set 25% weakness is, at least in my mind, the best balance for the ecl. (including the regen)

So thats the final version. Whatcha think?

[Lorkar]

Throw in SR and you got a deal.

[LinuxPup]

on a troll? ECL 3 != SR

[Amoenotep]

i'd go with those stats, regen, set 25% vuln for a 3

[Lorkar]

Ok no SR, but throw the dex back in.

[Tsavong]

as the normal dwarf gets 2 con wouldent a +4 con race sute dwarfs batter?

[Bargeld]

I thought SR was common to all ECL3 races...

[Wolfarus]

As i understand d&d genetics, humans and orcs are the easiest 2 races to "mix" with, and besides that all the other races have at least 2 sub-races to choose from.

So half orc gets one more flavor, as both a subrace and a preferred class.

Having sr on every +3 ecl race just cheapens it for the ones that already have it, i think (and there's too many besides, i would have thought up something diff for the other ecl 3's and only had SR on 1 )

anyways, now that we're in more or less general agreement, when can we set it put in?

(though it should still be kept out of AO, since having the full fire immunity of Rdd would negate part of their penalties for being +3)