SD and Pally

[Korr]

A couple quick thoughts I had for balancing the Pure Paladin and the ShadowDancers.

Paladin:

I personally think that the pure pally dispell they have is overpowered... a level 40 dispell check even once a day is ridiculous IMO. I know it is only once a day, but wizards generally only memorize one of their buffs per day, and to ask them to memorize 2 is overkill for a wizard who gets very few slots compared to a cleric. There is no reason a paladin of equal level with a wizard should have a 45% chance to dispell a buff from a wizard. I think it would work better if the paladins dispell were put at what the paladin caster level should be which is 1/2 paladin level. It would allow a paladin to not be overpowered in dispelling power, just under what a greater dispelling spell can do (with 25 devoted caster levels that at best has 3/4 progression in BAB). Maybe to help also balance it out with a lower dispell allow it 3x a day or something. I just seems that the dispelling power of the pure paladins in way out of whack. With a 20 + roll they will be able to dispell max (roll of 19 assuming nat 20 is auto success) of a 29 caster level person, and minimum (100% dispell assuming a roll of 2) 11 caster level character. Perhaps also give the ability earlier to more easily contend with those who cross-classed out of their casting class.

ShadowDancer:

NWN implements the 1/2 speed during stealth to allow no negatives to hide or move silent (as the PHB does, not sure on whether its supposed to be -5 penalty). And I assume this cant be changed... you should be able to be in stealth mode at full speed with a -20 to both hide and move silent. This is however not what Im suggesting, it is just the line-up for what I think would help balance the SD out a bit. Most characters seem to lean towards listen because there are less move-silent buffs/items around than hide items. I remember a 3rd ed book I read (one of the submanuals for Druid/Rangers Wilderness and something or Wild and something) in which there was a sniper prestige class. When it when over the terms of "sniping" someone it assumed a bow (the class was like a WM for archers in fact) but the factors involved for hiding AFTER the attack was that you took a -20 to your hide. The thought would be a guy gets an arrow in his back and based of where it came from he could turn around and be pretty sure where the arrow came from (doesnt take alot of intelligence to figure out). So if there could be a way to make shadowdancers take -20 hide after attacking (during battle music say?) that I think would help balance out the problems of shadowdancers being very high and mighty. -20 is just what the book used... and I know there are alot of monsters who can spot my SD pretty well with max dex, items, and focuses/epic focuses/stealthy feats so the actual adjustments I would leave to the mods. Maybe change up some of the spells or items to help reflect this better as to not be horrifically detrimental to SDs at the same time. The basic thought behind it is that a SD might actually have to run a bit before he can hide... nowhere to run, then nowhere to hide ';)

Just a few thoughts I had while smoking a cigarette during a reset, please let me know what you think.

[Amoenotep]

most things to do with hips/hide,ms are hard coded and direct...can't even indirectly mess it up becuase it doesn't happen the way you think it does.


also..that sniper class it didn't matter about the -20 to hide because the point of the class was to extend your firing range by about 50%. sure you can turn to look, but can you spot a guy that "should" have been 150yards away but is now hidng 350yards away?

[Korr]

Cant lower hide to make it harder for SDs to hide? I dont understand that

[Amoenotep]

its a hips - hide/ms adjustment type thing....i was trying to work around it once to find a loop hole and everything i could possible imagine short of rewriting code got all stupid in bioware's eyes....


its one of those things that is a direct contact between the skill and the feat that can't be touched, intercepted, or looped around

[Korr]

wow... bogus!!!

[Korr]

Ok, do I got responses on the SD thing... what about the Paladin?!?!?

[Fatzo]

aye ... biowares stupidity is unsurpassed when it comes to SD's ...i have remember hearing such things about them in the past.... as far as pallies... i have heard so many complaints about paladins being nerfed as it is....

maybe they need to be more "balanced" -- and these extreme spells add an unbalanced twist to every build's pure class bonus ... BUT its why it is a Pure Class bonus... you sacrifice one form of cheesiness for another !

i guess that a solution would be to make a build that does not rely on buffs to survive --- rendering the pallys cheese-dispell worthless...

everything can be countered as long as proper thought and more importantly -- time -- is invested in it ... level another 40 you say ? *bashes head against keyboard*

[Brionn_Unbound]

NWN is to the O'Reily Factor as Bioware is to FoxNews: "Fair and Balanced Gaming"

[cRaZy8or5e]

*bashes head against keyboard*

That's one way to use your head Fatz . *Bashes head against keyboard* *sigh* I feel better already!

[Fatzo]

aye well at least i do use it for somthing

[PeregrineV]

I'm at work, so no numbers, but use of the paladin dispel at level 30 does not usually dispel all of the crap on a Earth Guardian or guardian spirit or whatever it is on the earth plane. The tough spirit not the weak spirit. So, I don't think it's overpowered.

And all my casters have more than one buff memorized (or they have a potion close to hand) on the off chance that they get dispelled (or disjunctioned or whatever). If you know you'll be fighting non-spellcasting non-dispelling enemies, then one is safe. As a general rule, it isn't.

I have no comment for shadowdancers because of the hardwired thing. The only balance thing that would level the field would be to note that "Hide In Plain Sight" should not mean "Hide, Move, Attack, Hide, Run, Hide, Attack, Hide, Attack, Hide, Etc. In Plain Sight". Granted, if they stop moving in the blazing desert sun and I suddenly "can't see them" because they are HIPSing, then OK, it's a supernatural ability. But once they move and stab me and stab me and stab me and stab me and stop moving and "disappear" and I'm blubbering "which way did he go, which way did he go?", I get more skeptical. Maybe a nice +120 to Detect Stuff once a characters detects a "stealthed" enemy, lasting as many rounds as the characters level (they would be on High Alert for hidden enemies). Then the brave SD can run, hide, wait, and attack again. Kind of like a real stealth-based character. This would move the HIPS ability from the realm of impossible back to supernatural.

[--Ashe--]

I concur with PeregrineV. I have my pure paladin at 33, I have been traversing earth plane quite a bit. The Earth Guardians there are quite tough when it comes to the dispels, so I don't think its overpowered either. Quite often you don't get much if anything off them. Whereas my cleric with abj focuses can sweep in and knock a good amount off.