Spike Growth, Entangle, and Vine Mine

[cRaZy8or5e]

This thread has proven just how assinine several people in this community are.

It's a thread about 3 low level druid spells and ideas on how to fix them.

Yet all anyone can do is talk about how overpowered they think shifters and druids are, and their arguments have little or absolutely nothing to do with these spells.

I fart in your general direction.

[Kromix]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm fart

[BlkMamba]

Just want to relay information
i raid with Moi on occation
fact is we have the same gear and basically same feats
Moi does have stealth and skill focus, we both have epic focus
i have small race bonuses he does not

Xirt to Moi

Moi has 25 pts better hide/ms than Xirt
4 pts better AC
8 pts better AB
just as a reference, in shifted form, yeah, he's got alot goin for him
mind you, Xirt wasnt really made to have super hide/ms, really thats not possible in RK
but even with 20 or so lvl's of SD, small status, all the feats i can come close to his
Hide/MS, but then it cost majorly in AC and AB, which i got one of those to
for other reasons i dont use him in pvp at all mind you but i do have one done

This is just for reference as i have tried to work both ends of the spectrum
and well if its possible, i havent discovered it yet, at least down under anyhow

Peace, and good idea's Elda, maybe with alittle toneing your idea's might work
but again i think it will take some time and alot of balanceing still yet needs to take place

Mamba...

[frogofpeace]

And just for frog, ROGUES FOR NC!!

Eggselsior!

If AO gets palis I want shifted forms for CoTs.

(sorry, elda - I thought your idea was good, at least to try to get the spell back in play. Vine mine is the spell that slows you down and doesn't cure until you rest, if you didn't have FoM? That was a cool effect, make an appropriate DC and I'd say that's fine)

[Rufio]

*moved to new thread*

[Tsavong]

Well Eldaquen I think you did well to come up with some interesting ideas to give back druids some spells they have lost I would like to see more druids cast spells to kill me instead of turn into something ugly looking dragon thing. I don't think the – to spot spell is a good idea though as its hard enough to spot some hipsers and hipsing itself is a bit buggy but otherwise they seem interesting.

It is just a shame this thread got derailed by people who only wanted to talk about shifters or dragons and did not want to start there own topic on the subject.

[Shadowalker]

On topic, I think the devs atleast have some honest input concerning a few disabled spells, they simply have to read arround the fluff. A skill Im sure they have epic focus in by now. My thanks to elda for starting this talk and to those like bargeld (appogy for not listing all) who strived to provide meaningfull feedback.

Off topic, its my opion that most of the 'concerns' about shifters are due to the fact that till recently, shifters havent been used much in PvP. And everyone knows one of the greatest fears, is of the unknown. Which pretty well defines shifters in pvp. But that is changing. In example, the recent relic event. In the first couple heats, twig was able to effectivly web bolt a few toon, contributing to thier demise. It still requied other toons to acctually make the kill. By the 4 and 5th heats, 90%+ of raiders that came to Daeron were sporting FoM. Even those without the abilty to cast or UMD it themselves. Web nullified. As I continue to explore the possiblities of shifters, I am seeing more instances where my opponets are able to negate the paticualr power of the shifter Im using at that time. Even the Mighty Twig'stien has been delt a quick death in one on one battles. Against who and how is up to you to figure out. As was once posted in this very thread every pvp encounter holds a lesson. In this post there is one as well.. FoM, dont leave home without it.

[Bargeld]

Not trying to go off-topic (since bashing off-topicness is the new, hot thing) but I don't think that is Con Moi's build... I still can't see how that build even gets hips.

To shadow... I fought all those toons before the event. Many months ago, Alkpwn made an illithid and showed the over-uberness of that unique build. We've been fighing combaticus and Con Moi and twig and at least 3 druid dragons i can think of off the top of my head for a long time. It's not an issue of new-ness. Shifters were new like last year. In the middle of the year. When you say it is 'up to us to figure out how to beat em' it translates to me as 'pick a different toon that it isn't immune to'. And not just my assassin. Twig has raided SL in a number of forms and was the last man standing with 5 people trying to beat him down. It's really a matter of the very few things they actually have vulnerabilities to, and due to their versatility, they have the option of picking a different form for different abilities to suit the scenario. Most other players have to wait 30 mins and just pick a different toon.

Apparently this all belongs in the other thread, but it's hard to respond across threads.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Not trying to go off-topic (since bashing off-topicness is the new, hot thing) but I don't think that is Con Moi's build... I still can't see how that build even gets hips.

To shadow... I fought all those toons before the event. Many months ago, Alkpwn made an illithid and showed the over-uberness of that unique build. We've been fighing combaticus and Con Moi and twig and at least 3 druid dragons i can think of off the top of my head for a long time. It's not an issue of new-ness. Shifters were new like last year. In the middle of the year. When you say it is 'up to us to figure out how to beat em' it translates to me as 'pick a different toon that it isn't immune to'. And not just my assassin. Twig has raided SL in a number of forms and was the last man standing with 5 people trying to beat him down. It's really a matter of the very few things they actually have vulnerabilities to, and due to their versatility, they have the option of picking a different form for different abilities to suit the scenario. Most other players have to wait 30 mins and just pick a different toon.

Apparently this all belongs in the other thread, but it's hard to respond across threads.

Here I'll help.

[cluckster]

Any class that has a part of it disabled that it had before would want to see something implemented in its place. I am not asking for additional, but that what was taken away redone and given in a new balanced implementation with the offending part or affect removed.

Either in game or in a different thread someone once told me that vine mine hamper movement was a powerhouse that decided outcomes. Now that is completely gone, without anything in its place.

If sneak attack was disabled, would not a pure rogue player seek something to replace it?

Is there something specific about the numbers I proposed?

I agreen with Elda, Can anyone say WoF.... most everyone wanted WoF to be fixed or replaced so why is everyone (players not staff) complaining about druids not getting the disable spells fixed or replaced...

[Lokey]

Yah yah, starting next week earliest.

VINE MINE
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Druid 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 10-ft.-radius/level spread
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes
You hold the crown of ivy leaves aloft, invok-
ing the powers of nature, and an explosion
of plant growth fills the area—plants over
which you have control.
You create and direct the rapid growth
of vines. When you cast the spell,
choose one of the following effects.
• Climbing aid (treat as knotted
ropes)
• Bind helpless targets (Escape Artist
DC 25 to escape)
• Hamper movement (as heavy under-
growth)
• Camouflage (add +4 competence
bonus on Hide checks)
As a standard action, you can redirect
the vines’ growth (thus changing the
effect).
Material Component: A crown of ivy
leaves.

Someone dig up spike growth (I think it's subdivided into Spikegrowth: Rock, etc or something like that)? (Hint it makes this look good.)

[Ryddwillow]

This thread has proven just how assinine several people in this community are.

It's a thread about 3 low level druid spells and ideas on how to fix them.

Yet all anyone can do is talk about how overpowered they think shifters and druids are, and their arguments have little or absolutely nothing to do with these spells.

Pretty amazing that FOM solves this problem. All guilds have a remedy to this problem and a few whines comes to this, Really? Only 1 toon had a problem with this was my pure Barb. He would wipe 7 of you unless someone casted vine mine, or ETC..... THEN my party mate would cast freedom on me and I would wipe some more. Sd's couldn't stand my rage and I stole many a weapons. Here is the truth folks, Crying to this forum or a dm makes this game here sukk because of you!!! Learn to build a decent toon and happy results will happen. look at me, I'll be your huckleberry.

[mining]

This thread has proven just how assinine several people in this community are.

It's a thread about 3 low level druid spells and ideas on how to fix them.

Yet all anyone can do is talk about how overpowered they think shifters and druids are, and their arguments have little or absolutely nothing to do with these spells.

Pretty amazing that FOM solves this problem. All guilds have a remedy to this problem and a few whines comes to this, Really? Only 1 toon had a problem with this was my pure Barb. He would wipe 7 of you unless someone casted vine mine, or ETC..... THEN my party mate would cast freedom on me and I would wipe some more. Sd's couldn't stand my rage and I stole many a weapons. Here is the truth folks, Crying to this forum or a dm makes this game here sukk because of you!!! Learn to build a decent toon and happy results will happen. look at me, I'll be your huckleberry.

Rydd, I believe the disabling came about due to a way of bugging the spell such that having FoM etc. didn't matter.

[Ryddwillow]

Never had a problem, and if I thought it was a bug then I would of stated it years ago. Unless it is exploited, but I never had a problem to this date.

[mining]

Never had a problem, and if I thought it was a bug then I would of stated it years ago. Unless it is exploited, but I never had a problem to this date.

Bugged in a way that was being used to farm epic stuff or something. So yeah, exploited crazily. I suppose it was specific instances used intentionally. But, its probably on the bottom of the devs to do list, though if they could, say, change it for the drider shifter power or something similar, or even a higher dc grease on one target, with DC based on conj focuses and w/e. Would let us use it, rather than leave us with those bloody grues eating all of our spells .