Food for thought

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hond
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Re: Food for thought

Post by hond »

If you want to convince me, do this:

Make a post. Lay down the facts. Cite examples. Have someone not yourself agree with you.

Bam, instantly 99% more likely to convince me because you have evidence, you have an explanation, and you have someone else saying "Yeah, maybe he's right." Any 3 of these is still like 90% better.
i really try to...but seems i can't explain it corectly...at least and after reading the other post, i don't think, that i'm the only guy , who play this server, who think this token is OP...
make a thread with a resumen of each token, and ask opinion to players...you know mine...

hond
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Re: Food for thought

Post by hond »

just a little exemple of the restrictive use of SL conceal token: i was pvping outside Sleeth..get killed...team mate put me up.
No more II rod, and sniv token already used, want conceal...try the mask..OOOHH noes...i can't use it...loose a charge and no conceal...
So i will compare the nubs tokens SL and TC...our damage token is way better (since i just learn that damages can't be resisted) but their conceal token is better ( still very nubish) as you can use it in all places BEFORE entering in inside place...
In change, sometimes you don't have any inside place to activate SL one first, and go outside concealed...
Even with that little point, SL tokens are a bit better than TC one...
i feel better knowing i'm on rank 5 of the tokens and not on rank 6 (for a few, but that's it)...

Korr
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Korr »

hond wrote:
If you want to convince me, do this:

Make a post. Lay down the facts. Cite examples. Have someone not yourself agree with you.

Bam, instantly 99% more likely to convince me because you have evidence, you have an explanation, and you have someone else saying "Yeah, maybe he's right." Any 3 of these is still like 90% better.
i really try to...but seems i can't explain it corectly...at least and after reading the other post, i don't think, that i'm the only guy , who play this server, who think this token is OP...
make a thread with a resumen of each token, and ask opinion to players...you know mine...
He told you to make a post... I wouldnt suggest turning around and trying to get him to make it.

Again you KNOW you cant use SL token outside, should have used it first thing inside the cradle... or a nearby shop. Or if I recall AO has lots of sewers!
Amoenotep wrote:korr is the greatest :(
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Daltian
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Daltian »

All relic rooms are inside, all respawn points (where you usually go after you die and need to buff) are inside. Token that activates inside is several times more practical then one that activates outside.
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Amoenotep
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Amoenotep »

i know a couple respawn points that are outside...
Mask, Lord of the Shadows
Gruumsh, One-Eye
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Daltian
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Daltian »

Yes. But when raiding or defending you respawn indoor in great majority of cases.
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hond
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Re: Food for thought

Post by hond »

All relic rooms are inside, all respawn points (where you usually go after you die and need to buff) are inside. Token that activates inside is several times more practical then one that activates outside.
explain why??
when you raid, you find generaly people waiting you OUTSIDE the craddle,in case of TC deal easy :beryn loge 3 maps away, from melencia...if you find resistance you can't use benefit of token or a very short time, same with sleeth (beryn loge), 2 maps away from NC +2maps before the craddle(anoth mountain??)...3 maps from neversumer
In all those case a TC player can active his token at the moment he engage the pvp, if defenders are scouting outside craddles, and can be use the token during all duration...or just activate the token before entering in temple, for same duration...In case of SL one, you activate your token in beryn loge, and when you engage same defenders, your token is near of finishing and you don't take any profits of him, and you can't reactivate him...I start to play NS4 in circle, and i was using that token a lot in PvM, and never found any dificulty to activate him... there many place of PvM you can't use SL one..
In other side, as SL and RK are underdark city TC token can't be used there (not sure about RK)...
Anyway, the most important idea of all this is : TC/SL have the weaker tokens far away compared with the rest, and 1 of them need a restrictive activation.
Those tokens are usualy used in last use, and the best exemple is after been killed and raised..no time to rest (race tokens used) no time to buff (no umd toon or no more suplies) and on the bad place sometimes (inside or outside )...

Daltian
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Daltian »

hond wrote:
All relic rooms are inside, all respawn points (where you usually go after you die and need to buff) are inside. Token that activates inside is several times more practical then one that activates outside.
explain why??
when you raid, you find generaly people waiting you OUTSIDE the craddle,in case of TC deal easy :beryn loge 3 maps away, from melencia...if you find resistance you can't use benefit of token or a very short time, same with sleeth (beryn loge), 2 maps away from NC +2maps before the craddle(anoth mountain??)...3 maps from neversumer
In all those case a TC player can active his token at the moment he engage the pvp, if defenders are scouting outside craddles, and can be use the token during all duration...or just activate the token before entering in temple, for same duration...In case of SL one, you activate your token in beryn loge, and when you engage same defenders, your token is near of finishing and you don't take any profits of him, and you can't reactivate him...I start to play NS4 in circle, and i was using that token a lot in PvM, and never found any dificulty to activate him... there many place of PvM you can't use SL one..
In other side, as SL and RK are underdark city TC token can't be used there (not sure about RK)...
Anyway, the most important idea of all this is : TC/SL have the weaker tokens far away compared with the rest, and 1 of them need a restrictive activation.
Those tokens are usualy used in last use, and the best exemple is after been killed and raised..no time to rest (race tokens used) no time to buff (no umd toon or no more suplies) and on the bad place sometimes (inside or outside )...
I fail to understand your logic. If you are using that token as primary concealment source while raiding/defending I don't see a reason not to use it right away after you rest and buff. Duration is long enough to last you entire encounter. And you aren't outside in that case. That kind of situation comes up way more often then ones you described.
Also, when you raid you will often be at most 1 zoning away from indoor area, and all cradles are indoor. On the other hand some cradles like RK and SL are far away from outside area and if you rest there you can forget about TC token.
I really don't understand why are you complaining about indoor activation as it is clearly better choice and suits SL. I would be really mad if I was SL and my token activated outside only.
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Korr
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Korr »

I think Im now saying this for the third time (maybe more?)

It is YOUR choice to NOT go inside. If you NEED TO BE INSIDE, GO INSIDE. If you CHOOSE NOT TO, its YOUR FAULT... nothing and no one elses!
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Shadowalker
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Shadowalker »

AO token = OP

SL conceal token = acceptable (and envied by TC toons)
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Eldaquen
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Eldaquen »

TC pipes work outside, SL's City is underground and not outside. TC's token does not work underground. Also TC's conceal token is only 20%, which no one bothers with because its useless when compared camoflague at 33% or ii at 50%. Also the duration is incedibly short.
Murphy's Law:
Nothing is as easy as it looks.
Everything takes longer than you expect.
And if anything can go wrong,
It will, at the worst possible moment.

hond
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Re: Food for thought

Post by hond »

Also, when you raid you will often be at most 1 zoning away from indoor area
wrong
beryn loge :3 maps away, from melencia...if you find resistance you can't use benefit of token or a very short time, same with sleeth (beryn loge), 2 maps away from NC +2maps before the craddle(anoth mountain??)...3 maps from neversumer
Melencia,Sleeth, Daeron, and neversumer are more than 50% of raided city...
I fail to understand your logic. If you are using that token as primary concealment source while raiding/defending I don't see a reason not to use it right away after you rest and buff. Duration is long enough to last you entire encounter
in group pvp. you will rest in the nearest place of hot map (defender posted as first lign of defence), in order to have longer benefit in pvp of spell like UEF, AVA and song...i quote higher the shorter inside point you can eventually , rest and buff. And the duration is not the longer as you think...
TC pipes work outside, SL's City is underground and not outside. TC's token does not work underground. Also TC's conceal token is only 20%, which no one bothers with because its useless when compared camoflague at 33% or ii at 50%. Also the duration is incedibly short.
right
In other side, as SL and RK are underdark city TC token can't be used there (not sure about RK)...
But the most importants things :
Anyway, the most important idea of all this is : TC/SL have the weaker tokens far away compared with the rest, and 1 of them need a restrictive activation.
and finaly
AO token = OP
also
To be honest +3 ab/ac/saves is seriously op. Compared to MA and NC it is OP. Compared to SL/TC its ridicously OP.
and
I also think that +3 ab/ac/saves is very overpowered. Just using that token can turn an average meleer into a good meleer, and a good meleer into a monster meleer. The only other faction that gets anything that even touches ab and ac is the MA aura token, but it is -2 ab/ac, doesn't touch saves, and has drawbacks (it dispels the ab and ac drain from curse song and bigby 5). The AO token boosts ALL of the critical stats even more than the MA token drains and has no drawbacks.
that's was my primary idea when i enter in this thread, not comparing the 2 weaker token of the game .
PD: to Korr...seems a lost of time trying to explain you , that you don't decide of dying (loosing your buff). yeah respawn point is indoor, but the action is where you died (in this case outise sleeth), you get raised, and don't have time to ask to the buffer other II (he eventualy need rest to have other), oponents and team mates are fighting, and as emergency use (as, in my idea token will have to be used)i can't use the token...i know, my token don't work outside, but in the adrenaline moment, it's more reflexive than other thing...you just raised, no buffs, need to find a place for rest , and oponent still around to kill you, you want best defence posible at THIS moment, and your outside...
i don't CHOOSE the place and the moment to die.

Korr
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Korr »

You do chose to stand around and try to fight instead of taking 30 seconds to get inside a building, use the token, get out and join the battle.

NC is riddled with building... some even on the way there.
Melencia has... some building.
Sleeth has building and sewers you can dip it.

And as always you can go INTO the relic room for your relic raid. It is a two-fold bonus... you get to use token, and defenders start worrying about losing their relics a little more. No one is really worried until their relic room goes clear!
Amoenotep wrote:korr is the greatest :(
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hond
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Re: Food for thought

Post by hond »

You do chose to stand around and try to fight instead of taking 30 seconds to get inside a building, use the token, get out and join the battle.
lol man....you forget to add a precision, the 4 AO's between me and the city entry ,wasn't agree to let me enter in sleeth, run, thru dragon eye, enter in compound , enter in a inside place use the token etc....and at this point if i rest i use my race token ,so no need to be inside...

Korr
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Korr »

hond wrote: lol man....you forget to add a precision, the 4 AO's between me and the city entry ,wasn't agree to let me enter in sleeth, run, thru dragon eye, enter in compound , enter in a inside place use the token etc....and at this point if i rest i use my race token ,so no need to be inside...
If you rest you waste more time. And unless the 4 AOs are all dragons just forming right up on the transitions then you can get through. Or if theyre constantly KDing you... but if thats the case I wouldnt be concerned about the token as much as your build.
Amoenotep wrote:korr is the greatest :(
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