Dragon Fear question

[Nyeleni]

Most of the shifters don't have dragonform. And druids get chopped down once they deshift.

[Lorkar]

*is still looking around for that dead horse, with whip in hand*

[BlkMamba]

Most of the shifters don't have dragonform. And druids get chopped down once they deshift.

The whole point in the thread is about the shifter dragon's fear aura. Yes, you can get beat down but with shifters you can shift into something else, many other things you can shift into and still live. When an RDD uses both of their shifts, what are we to do?


-Anya

[Daltian]

Most of the shifters don't have dragonform. And druids get chopped down once they deshift.

The whole point in the thread is about the shifter dragon's fear aura. Yes, you can get beat down but with shifters you can shift into something else, many other things you can shift into and still live. When an RDD uses both of their shifts, what are we to do?


-Anya

Shifter can't shift mid fight. It's straight up suicide. I don't think you understand that. You probably think druids get unshifted ac in range of the RDD. But we don't have RDD ac. Unchifted ac is in high 40's.

And if you need fear do do well with your RDD dragon, you are definitely doing something wrong.

[BlkMamba]

Most of the shifters don't have dragonform. And druids get chopped down once they deshift.

The whole point in the thread is about the shifter dragon's fear aura. Yes, you can get beat down but with shifters you can shift into something else, many other things you can shift into and still live. When an RDD uses both of their shifts, what are we to do?


-Anya

Shifter can't shift mid fight. It's straight up suicide. I don't think you understand that. You probably think druids get unshifted ac in range of the RDD. But we don't have RDD ac. Unchifted ac is in high 40's.

And if you need fear do do well with your RDD dragon, you are definitely doing something wrong.

I think I understand that, I have a shifter myself
You dont need the fear to do well
But do you see how its fair at all that they get a DC50 when ours is DC35 and our dragon is all we have?
Shifters have much more possibilities than we do, and we're the one to get nerfed?
Sure, our DC could have been equal at 50, maybe
but it also could have a DC 31
Do you honestly see how that makes any sense?

-Anya

[Tsavong]

They don't get a DC of 50 they work for a DC of 50. To get a shifter dragon you need 30 wisdom so buffed up that's 42 (modifier of 16). Shifter fear is I think 30 + wis modifier so that would be a fear of 46. Which is in line with say implode if you put a lot of work into it except you don't die you just run away. It is possible to get a dc of 50 or more but they have to work for it probably giving up blinding speed and other things.

The old RDD fear DC you had you did not need to put in a lot of ability points to get it giving you a lot more freedom in your build. So no a shifter making a DC of 50 dose not mean that you should be given a aura that could get a DC of 50 that you don't need to sacrifice anything for.

Thinking about it if a dragon with a DC of 50 fears hasted people I don't think said dragon would have blinding speed so they would not be able to catch the people they feared.

[Nyeleni]

Besides fear doesn't even last that long anymore.

[Daltian]

I thought RDD has other options too. I have seen many bard rdds, sorc rdds do very well without dragon shape. I dont see your point. I want my shifter to get all ability bonuses with 10 lvls of it, and I want to get all AC bonuses , and immunity fire any paralysis. Hell, I want shifter to have all abilities RDD has. While we are at it I want palemaster abilities, CoT, assassin and dwarven defender ones.

I don't understand why you insist on RDD having shifter fear, it's like assassin insisting on divine wrath, simply foolish. When I think about it, the fear you get now is even too much. Take it away from them!

[weasel423]

Will the whining ever cease

[Bargeld]

The most recent posts in this topic have already been brought up and discussed previously, here:

http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns/viewto ... &t=1002047

Read through it and then follow the link at the end of the posts

[Daltian]

The most recent posts in this topic have already been brought up and discussed previously, here:

http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns/viewto ... &t=1002047

Read through it and then follow the link at the end of the posts

LOL

[mining monk]

I think I understand that, I have a shifter myself
You dont need the fear to do well
But do you see how its fair at all that they get a DC50 when ours is DC35 and our dragon is all we have?
Shifters have much more possibilities than we do, and we're the one to get nerfed?
Sure, our DC could have been equal at 50, maybe
but it also could have a DC 31
Do you honestly see how that makes any sense?

-Anya

Lets see how far we can go.

30 base DC.

Wisdom:

(Any race with +2 wis) 20 base. + 10 from levels (4,8,12,16,20,24,28,32,36,40). Great wisdom's from levels (21,24,27,30,33,36,39) = 7. We'll also take 28 shifter. Thats +6 feats. Dragon Shape takes one, +3 more wisdom, then there are 2 feats up to you.

Current wisdom is 20+10+10 = 40.
Lets add a +4 book and +12 magic to that. We now have 56 Wisdom.
Thats a modifier of 23. Thus the maximum DC is 53. Woot. You have 2 feats left to play with. Enjoy. You have 6 levels of spells to play with. As an RDD you can get 5th level spells and get a whopping 12 epic feats to use as you wish. You can also have 8 in all stats except for, say, Dex and get Blinding Speed, or in intelligence and get loads of skills.


Now, given

will
epic levels 10
rings 2
Helm 4
armor 1
Pre-epic low save 6
totals 35

Almost every toon can use the above…

Now choose from the following to crank it to 40+ …

pre-epic high save6
feats 7
Owls 2
base stats mod -2-20
racial 0-2
sacred defense +1-15
bard song 0-6
divine grace -2 (BG and Dorf, dunno if its still glitched) - +23

Now, as we speak of TC and NC being allies, discount for a moment the Sacred Defence. You have 35 base will. Add in, say, +4 from base stats/otherbonuses and the bonuses from bard song, and you have 45 will. Thats saving > than 1/2 the time from team buffs. Add in epic will and you have to roll a 3 to fail. Add in luck of heroes and you beat all but the most focused fear aura.
Or get someone to cast remove fear on you, for +4 easily.
If someone is playing a cleric, they'll have 35 base +6 high save + at least 5 from Wis + 6 from Bard Song if your raiding = 48. Add remove fear and your cleric is ready to unfear you instantly.

So, your whining about an ability that is actually hard to get to high levels, can be made ineffective relatively easy (A single spell will heal it, a few feats/items will mostly prevent it. You even have a race that is immune to it. Paladins are also Immune.
Now, stunning fist in the other hand.
Assuming w/e w/e w/e you have 20+12+10 wisdom, and 19 base Dex, you have a base DC of 30+21 = 51. You have +14 from feats, so a DC of 65. *Cough*. This is far higher, though it is a fort save, so slightly easier to make. AND you get your fear aura, as a "just in case".

[VagaStorm]

Where do you get a base will of 35 from. A character with high will, will have a base will of 22+stats+bonuses.

[rocketkai]

If you combine 3 classes with high wills appropriately pre-epic lvls, you can get a base will of 26+stats+feat bonuses

[VagaStorm]

If you combine 3 classes with high wills appropriately pre-epic lvls, you can get a base will of 26+stats+feat bonuses

Yeah, I figured that one out after looking over the saves tables(How could I not know this....), it's still a bit from 35...