Quoted for TRUTH!!!mgrjebbo wrote:*my post has nothing constructive to add to this thread*
Figured i would save someone the time of editing....
Return of the "I Win Button"
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Lorkar1
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lord_modred
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one thing that i think that everyone lost sight of a long long time ago was the fact that combat in ns4(and nwn in general) was never meant to be a "one guy vs everyone" situation. it was always meant to be team based, thats why its a multiplayer game after all... did you ever stop to think that every class was NOT supposed to stand a chance against every single other class? Thats why there are numerous classes to begin with. thats why classes like monk have spell resistance while others don't, thats why fighters have poor spot and listen, thats why rogues have low hit points. the game was meant to be played in groups, that way if your a fighter and you're suddenly under attack by a crafty shadow dancer, it might be useful to have a keen sensed ranger around to quickly dispatch him. or if you're a mage and you are beset by a monk with ungodly spell resistance, it might be useful to have that fighter buddy to provide a nice wall of flesh and pointy metal.
this rant applies to everyone, but it goes doubly for those of you in guilds. instead of trying to build one character who can dominate everything thats thrown at it, try talking to your buddies and figuring out how to build a team of characters that are even more devastatingly powerful. you know, not once in all the time i've played NWN have i seen a cleric that focuses on buffing his comrades? imagine if a cleric memorized nothing but protective spells and heals and he had a few fighters and a couple mages. might the mages be more inclined to memorize more damaging spells now that they need not be concerned with protecting themselves? might a fighter expend less feats on save related feats and focus more on damage dealing?
just think about it.
...maybe i oughta start a guild...
this rant applies to everyone, but it goes doubly for those of you in guilds. instead of trying to build one character who can dominate everything thats thrown at it, try talking to your buddies and figuring out how to build a team of characters that are even more devastatingly powerful. you know, not once in all the time i've played NWN have i seen a cleric that focuses on buffing his comrades? imagine if a cleric memorized nothing but protective spells and heals and he had a few fighters and a couple mages. might the mages be more inclined to memorize more damaging spells now that they need not be concerned with protecting themselves? might a fighter expend less feats on save related feats and focus more on damage dealing?
this here is a perfect example of what im talking about. perhaps if those 5 PMs had a pure wizard or two to throw down some time stops they'd have standed more of a chance. you know in terms of natural selection variation tends to ensure survival. that way if one individual falls because of a weak point, the others dont.Seriously it was the craziest thing I ever saw, a party of 5 MD PM bards and PM tanks, dead in 30 seconds cuz of 8 epic defenders. Ainarato and Kermit waved their weapons ineffectually to try and scare-no that's too strong a word- make em nervous, but really we just sat and watched.
just think about it.
...maybe i oughta start a guild...
"O cruel fate, floating through the void of space like gravity's plaything. O to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee."
help save world hunger!
help save world hunger!
i guess you never played with Saya Nightshade then...her favorite was the buffer cleric...lord_modred wrote:this rant applies to everyone, but it goes doubly for those of you in guilds. instead of trying to build one character who can dominate everything thats thrown at it, try talking to your buddies and figuring out how to build a team of characters that are even more devastatingly powerful. you know, not once in all the time i've played NWN have i seen a cleric that focuses on buffing his comrades? imagine if a cleric memorized nothing but protective spells and heals and he had a few fighters and a couple mages. might the mages be more inclined to memorize more damaging spells now that they need not be concerned with protecting themselves? might a fighter expend less feats on save related feats and focus more on damage dealing?
but overall i agree with you and have already applied your logic to builds i hand out
-Slave- [GM]
Psycho Banny and all his forms
Psycho Banny and all his forms
It's one of the few intelligent posts Ive read in this forum and especially from Modred (pun included). But seriously although he is 100% right, you still have to consider that comrades won't be there all the time to support you. Thus the builds tend to be more onto soloing everything than suppporting each other - just to build the überteam.
Variety is important of course, nobody can deny that.
PS and it can be boring for some players to be just the buffer of a team. I wouldn't mind too much, I think. Then again, I like the action at the front too much to be bored at the rear of a party.
Variety is important of course, nobody can deny that.
PS and it can be boring for some players to be just the buffer of a team. I wouldn't mind too much, I think. Then again, I like the action at the front too much to be bored at the rear of a party.
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lord_modred
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well, you win some and you loose some. but when people start complaining about things like. "fighters are weak against shadow dancers! that needs to be fixed!" people need to realize that no one class was meant to beat everything. making a build that can solo alot of things is perfectly reasonable, but once you start saying that no one class should have an advantage against any other class you are basically eliminating the purpose for there being more than one class.Nyeleni wrote:you still have to consider that comrades won't be there all the time to support you. Thus the builds tend to be more onto soloing everything than suppporting each other
oh, and skotg. team play is actually exactly what this game is about. seeing as the game is essentially DnD and thats what DnD was always about, having a team of specialists that are suited to dealing with specific obstacles.
if one class tends to beat another class more often than not, that is actually a testament to the fact that it is already balanced. balance does not necessarily mean everyone has an equal chance against everyone, sometimes it means individuals are good at killing some while at the same time they are weak against others.
"O cruel fate, floating through the void of space like gravity's plaything. O to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee."
help save world hunger!
help save world hunger!
The original post said did not say "Fighters are weak against sd'rs , that needs to be fixed".
The original post said that the Pure Fighter KD token was too much, it needs to be lowered a bit. Then, to give something back to the pure fighter which made sense from an RP perspective in the eyes of the person that made the post.
The original post said that the Pure Fighter KD token was too much, it needs to be lowered a bit. Then, to give something back to the pure fighter which made sense from an RP perspective in the eyes of the person that made the post.
