Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

[Bargeld]

During PvP last night, one of our guys mentioned illegal logging from defenders to raiders. After a little back and forth on party chat, I spewed the following wisdom:

"It depends on the DM, their mood, the temperature and humidity, the time and the phase of the moon."

To summarize: Just don't be stupid.

As far as new player influx into a 10 year old game... been there, done that. There is nothing you should proactively do with the goal of increasing the playerbase except keep the server and players in line and in good playing order. Basically, keep the server alive and active and devved. The only other way to try to gain new players is to do an advertising/marketing campaign (paid or unpaid) using facebook or some other social media. I don't think the returns for that would be worth the effort, personally. Players who choose to join and stay do it based on their own personal experiences on the server. Tweak a unique ability on 2% of toons? Try to address dual-log problems which have existed since the beginning of the game? These aren't the experiences that cause new players to leave or stay. It may effect a few crotchety old players tho.

I think the DM/Dev team is on the right track by weighing the cost/benefit of wiping in order to consider fixing things. It looks to me like it has been weighed and the cost is greater than the benefit.... which is fine. Especially since they are going to go add new content to the server instead. That's the type of excitement people like to hear and also what will make players login.

[dethonlegs]

As far as new player influx into a 10 year old game... been there, done that. There is nothing you should proactively do with the goal of increasing the playerbase except keep the server and players in line and in good playing order.

I don't agree. The biggest hurdle newcomers have by far is the time it takes to get to 40. Sure it's quick early on, but getting to 40 so you can fully participate in raid / defence takes months. I believe this is where things could improve dramatically. I mean would it be that bad for a newcomer to complete a build in one week instead of eight? Yes I know those players who have a near permanent connection to the server would do it in 48 hrs - so what? It would just mean more time spent making different builds instead of focusing on the one.

In any case, getting a toon to 40 is just the start of the ns experience. Apart from pvp, there is the constant need for better gear which in of itself can take an eternity (as it should!). Why make levelling just as tedious?

Lets face it. For better or worse, new players are casual players and they want instant gratification. Modern games give them this, some of the more populated nwn mods give them this, neversummer does not.

[Bargeld]

I'll agree with that. Personally, my vault of playable toons really is limited to the overall amount of gear I've amassed. I think i have 2, maybe 3 +6 slash tower shields for ALL my toons. It discourages me from building anything new with tower shields, knowing I can't currently gear it properly. Other gear is similar. I have a bunch of other finished toons that are pretty neat, but most are nekkid, having donated their gear to a toon that I find to be better or more fun or more useful. This is also why a lot of players use the same toons for PvP over and over. They use the ones with the best gear that is the most fun and fits with the current team. Unfortunately, its hard to have an arsenal to pick from any role needed, due to the lack of gear when you have a lot of toons in your vault. If a newbie had 10 lvl 40's, they would still suck in PvP vs the veteran, fully geared toons out there. But at least they could participate in PvP and they would also be motivated to start gear runs.

The new curves work well for 1-30, 30-34 is still better than previous, but that last 34-40 stretch still takes forever.

[mining]

Remember, for a new player, playing the game is progressing through areas is levelling. Once you want to pvp, yeah, its never gonna be easy to push out tons of 40s and gear them all.

Do people think 34-40 is too long? It should take, I don't know, what seems reasonable? If you're solo or duo it will take freaking ages, but if you're a party of like 8 tackling planes, not long?

The idea was mostly to wind up with similar 30-40 times, but greatly reduce the rate of XP loss from 1-30 - because it was awful (you needed to kill *twice* as many monsters to get level 2 compared to level 1) - and reduce the mindset of "Lets farm dorfs for 8 hours" - which it has.

[Delisha Zrazorian]

Do people think 34-40 is too long?

yep! way too long...

If you're solo or duo it will take freaking ages

Gotta agree here...

but if you're a party of like 8 tackling planes

a party of 8....
I lag so bad I can't move... tough to level when you're dead...

[hond]

lvl 35+ is awfull....getting 300 xps for a CR 36 (with ecl1 toon) at lvl 36 is just ridiculous....it take ages to kill that mob...and you need to kill 110 of those...some players don't have oportunity to group a big party...and in case your in a big party, chances of getting good gear is very low....new players are heavy penality for making a lvl40 toon well geared for pvp...and loot on some spots is just too lol...ex: i have to kill more than 50 xegs in neg plan to loot a belt...take me 6 days long with 6-8 hours play average.... when a xeg ,drop a single +7 heal kit, is very very frustrating...

[dethonlegs]

i have to kill more than 50 xegs in neg plan to loot a belt...take me 6 days long with 6-8 hours play average

I'm sure others have similar experiences. For me, it took 2 months solid in the Abyss courtyard to get one succubus robe. It takes a while to clear that map solo. In the end I didn’t even use it - just gave it away.... The journey rather than the destination and all that?

[mining]

My personal best? Worst? Was spending about 2 months in bahamuts.

Edit: I didn't even end up getting, I traded 2 +2s for someone elses, lol.

[DM Ireheart]

My personal best? Worst? Was spending about 2 months in bahamuts.

[cRaZy8or5e]

lvl 35+ is awfull....getting 300 xps for a CR 36 (with ecl1 toon) at lvl 36 is just ridiculous....it take ages to kill that mob...and you need to kill 110 of those...some players don't have oportunity to group a big party...and in case your in a big party, chances of getting good gear is very low....new players are heavy penality for making a lvl40 toon well geared for pvp...and loot on some spots is just too lol...ex: i have to kill more than 50 xegs in neg plan to loot a belt...take me 6 days long with 6-8 hours play average.... when a xeg ,drop a single +7 heal kit, is very very frustrating...

I have been on this server for idk how long, and I have one xeg belt. I've farmed neg, posi, and dwp for months for the paltry bit of gear that I have, and at least half of what I have was given to me by burrahobbit (and then the duntz only has two or three characters kitted out with high lvl gear at any one time, i don't think he has a single NC/TC character with greater than lvl 25 gear except for crafted lol). The fact that gear is exceptionally difficult and rare is a feature of the server to make it difficult for metagamers to amass a huge stockpile of gear thus unbalancing the economy. It still happens, given the amount of time since the last wipe.

The rarity and the difficulty in acquiring gear serves to get people to join a guild or at least start developing friendships with other players. Stronger relationships results in server loyalty. I don't know if this was by design but I think it helps develop the server as a community. Check with your guildmates, some of them have got to have whatever gear you want/need.

[mining]

One of the things I love about NS4 is that its hard to reactively build to counter things. You have an imploder that's working great? It'll be a while before everyone has 47+ fort.

On an arena server, it'll be literally 3-4 hours.

[Celorn]

General Areas for Improvement

Increased PvP Opportunities

More Interesting Leveling:
-No XP loss on respawn. The time loss with respawn is enough of a penalty. A rapid de-leveling alternative would be needed through Devil Angels.

Getting back to the 'OP'... Most of what was suggested is a bit much, scheduling events and relic battles timed to specific periods would all be a little hard to manage when you have unpaid staff and people playing at all hours. Tho I DO like the no xp+gold loss on respawn idea...

If there's a wipe, I'd hope it would be a R3V0LUTION for NS4 & also: THE absolute FINAL wipe, ever.;

I know the 'old days' are gone now, but I do miss the pre-relic wars NS4 where the world was more of an adventure, rampaging PK players appearing randomly anywhere. It would be cool if there were other reasons for PvP than relics and guild wars, or possibly some reworking of the relic wars. Note: Keep in mind - some of my ideas would require the use of a ns4.hak which would really make this no contest, the best NWN action server of all.

PvP
-All factions should have 'outposts', and these outposts should be able to be taken over by a rival faction and 'owned' by them for purposes of respawning (bind points) etc. - This could also be tied into bonus XP for holding enemy outposts.
-Spice up pvp with a wider variety of short-duration stuns, and give more options for haste - maybe a short-duration 'sprint' ability for all characters with a cooldown.
-Disarmed weapons should always drop into your pack, there is too much drama and bug-potential with them dropping on the ground (ie: ramps, placeables, etc..)
-Relics: possibly have relics 'lock-in' to the cradle for a certain period of time, so that the reward for capturing them is some un-interrupted leveling time.
-When you land the killing blow on a player (or do the most damage to a player and he dies) you get a pvp token, which can be collected and turned in for gear if you get enough of them -- scriped to allow only 1 token per CDkey/player/IP per day or reset to avoid abuse.
-XP &/or other bonuses in planar zones when you have a party of allies together, to encourage the spirit of the opposing factions more.
-Less pvp rules, or at least a bit more relaxed.

Armor
-re-balance heavy armor to have more DR and AC, and light armor with less DR
-increase the chance of 'artifact' modifications to all drops to spice up variety?

Weapons
-dropped weapon re-work & offer more than once choice for each (or randomize the damage?):
--All 1-handed weapons: MAX: +7 enhancement
--All 2-handed weapons: MAX: +8 enhancement
--All double-weapons: MAX: +9 enhancement with DR
^--Note: this could be lowered to +6,7,8... or +5,6,7.. or give everone a +2 mace!!!
--Remove massive criticals from all weapons or use 'the ns4.hak' to allow stacking of overwhelming crit

Crafting Overhaul
-using 'trap mats' to augment crafted weapons and armor with the combined element!
-remove or improve all the useless crafted gear that nobody makes because it's... useless!
-same goes for the useless items in the shops, might as well remove it from the game or rework it to give more choice while leveling.

Feats/Spells/Classes etc..
-give real cooldowns or 'diminishing returns' for HiPS, stunning fist, potions, etc.. using a HAK
-fix/replace some of the totally unused/useless spells into better ones;
-^-give more options for haste since it's a requirement for viable PvP, give exp.retreat or haste to droods, pallies, etc..
-removal or fixing of the antimagic cone, gawd is that annoying! - i've quit NS4 twice because of that one creature ability
-Revisit the '5' restriction now that you can move feats around (ie: you could move hips to SD(10), give classes like rangers REAL bonus feats rather than 'green' feats, etc..)
-Remove restriction to NC for PDK? But no, don't give them rogues OR mages!
-more spell scaling, ie; premonition should scale better to suit the +EB on weapons
-Fix the AB bug with the 3/4 AB classes (ie: so you don't lose 1 ab combining two 3/4th AB classes pre-epic)
-Party summon - It would be nice if there was some way to summon players to the party's location (there was such a thing for a short time) this time it could be a 'summon stone' in each Nexus that could allow, say 2 players to summon other players to their location.
-Oh, and please make an ECL3 Dwarf race!! PLEASE?!

Maps/layout
-rework/rethink some maps, maybe even move factions around so allies are closer to each other
--with more balanced maps overall, expand the areas that give 'defending' territory XP/gold? bonuses when killing enemy faction people on your land, leaving only the higher level NPC zones as 'neutral/contested' territory
--make the whole world link up properly and logically..so that it can be mapped out on a grid and overlayed with the underground areas!
--there shouldn't be deserts close to water, arctic areas near tropical, etc..
--fix 'zons location it seems to be in another dimension since if you map it out, it would overlap other maps and extend into the ocean
--underground to above-ground maps should link up more consistently, there are many places where underground and above-ground links are way off
-reduce & simplify the factions down to 3 (ie: relic bonus) 1. (RK/AO) 2. (AO/TC) 3. (SL/MA)
-add "area cooldowns" for entering certain epic/boss areas, (like DWP in ns3.5)
--possibly re-balancing and using the HAK to restrict parties to a certain size

Death/respawn/leveling/XP
-Instead of returning to your binding point, it would be cool if you could return to a chosen respawn point instead
-Removing or lowering the respawn penalty would also be nice, especially with the enforced/auto-respawn that was added
-More options for XP bonuses than just relics, ie: killing an enemy or X # of enemies on your soil without dying, grouping in planar areas with only people in your faction (and no more than 4 or 5 total?), holding other faction's outposts, etc...

Roleplaying
-RP is better in a private server setup, NS4 is riddled with too much drama and OOC shout spam, and a server reset or gang of gankers could upset a really nice tea party!

--
I know some of this would require a TON of dev work! I'm not suggesting that it would ALL need to be done, or even that a wipe would be needed 100% unless large class changes took place, just the ideas that have been banging around in my head over the years...

This is a PvP server by design, BUT at the same time it is a VERY challenging PvE server as well, one feeds and drives the other so the fact that it is so playable in spite of the dramatic balancing barriers the original NWN design is an impressive feat indeed!

[Monkey]

-Relics: possibly have relics 'lock-in' to the cradle for a certain period of time, so that the reward for capturing them is some un-interrupted leveling time.

This, I think, would be the single best way to improve and clarify the role of PvP on this server, while also allowing for fun leveling across factions.

For every 4 hour reset period, the first hour could be PvP focused. It would be impossible to join parties across factions during this period. Planar areas could be made inaccessible. PvP for relics and simply the fun of killing each other would be the focus. XP could be given for PKs instead of killing monsters.

During the last 3 hours before reset relics would lock in place, porting to party leader would be enabled somehow and the focus would be on leveling and gear runs.

The veterans with lots of 40s would probably rather see more time dedicated to PvP, but recruiting and retaining new players is becoming more important as NWN ages and the total player base declines.

[Rufio]

I don't want anyone organizing my fun for me.

[Nocturne]

I'll second that