Thoughts on Friendly Factions

[Amoenotep]

how do you penalize someone that is already hostile to everything in sight and unwelcome in the first place?


also, your faction ally by extension is not your faction. there was an agreement between the leaders that they would try to "protect" each other from being over ran by the other factions. that is why its harder to appease your ally than your home, they don't care about you.

because you choose to play it as the same faction doesn't make it so.

[cRaZy8or5e]

I'm talking about the players who defend enemy factions against their own faction, Alka. If you were to say, use Phalanx to fight off Hannibal MADD when he was trying to raid NC, there would no penalty at all.

I think the current system is perfectly fine. While people do use other toons to defend enemy factions, especially against RK and AO, its difficult to do, and in some cases more trouble than its worth. The only time it ever helps is if one faction has left a dead body in a cradle allowing for crossfactional defense without penalty or constant combat between NPC's and enemy PC's.

Alliances across faction lines have been made from time to time. This is especially true when it comes to fighting against AO/RK. Ask neil or Azeel, its always been this way against them. When they were in MD, and MD was the dominant force, it was not uncommon to see raiding parties that consisted of every faction on the server coming to raid MA, EVEN their erstwhile allies out of SL. Why, cuz they were the big dog.

Now PWnD/tLB/RR/ALE/*edit*HNs have been the dominant force on the server and since they've been on top, they've had a big target painted on them. Its only natural that players band together to fight you guys whenever possible.

What's to stop people from building in other factions and using those toons across faction lines? To date, nothing but expected norms/decorum and a feeling among the majority of the players that its better to play within faction boundaries.

While I think that the purpose of this thread is to try and get a ruling, I don't know that we'll see an actual ruling. Everyone will have to continue to use their own judgement/common sense in this but I expect that anyone playing against their faction can expect to be cursed and or experience penalties from Gods and DM's for doing so. I've been on the receiving end of Lolth's curse before, and heard that Torm can be rather brutal when he finds clerics or paladins of NC acting in a wayward fashion *looks pointedly at Shamed*.

Eldaquen never insulted you or made accusations about you personally Rainswept, she did make observations about your personal examples, and if you were insulted because she was honest and candid, well then you need to reconsider involving yourself with a healthy discussion, where you're ideas and statements might be criticized. There's no sense in you making personal attacks on her for making a critique of your arguments based on your personal actions. Using your actions and or talking points against you, while embarrassing, are entirely valid in a debate. If you don't like it when that happens, don't enter the debate.

*edit* and she was addressing the thread by refuting your arguments, her point being that she felt things were fine the way they are.

[Rainswept]

Alka: That's an interesting point, I'll give it some thought.

Crazy: Again I insist that it's not a matter of which factions happen to be in charge at the moment. The fact that AO/RK have been winning lately really isn't the point at all, or even relevant.

While I very much dislike the practice of defending say, TC with an MA toon, what I firmly believe should earn penalties is when said MA toon fights off other MA toons trying to get the MA relic out of TC. I can't see how that's less deserving of a penalty to MA reputation than accidentally hitting an MA guard. Can it be fixed? No idea, it's just my opinion that it's not a very balanced way of doing it.

Using your actions and or talking points against you, while embarrassing, are entirely valid in a debate.

Disputing the points I've made in a thread is not at all the same as misrepresenting out of context quotes on unrelated subjects and coupling them with snide insinuations about my builds. "Mine do this, don't yours?" and comments of that nature are not in any way relevant to a discussion on the correctness or incorrectness of the current reputation system. It's known as ad hominem, and it's certainly not a valid debate technique.

I've said my peace about those remarks, if you'd like to discuss it further, feel free to PM me.

[Tal]

I think all factions should be at war with one another. Split the alliances up and make all factions hostile to one another. There, problem solved.

[Tsavong]

Dose it relay matter if your hostile to your allied faction? Yes you can't bind or rest easy there but you can't pick up and cap relics except there's anyway. My bard Banshee is hostile to SL ever since I decide to get my relic out of it after they took it off MA and farming for lvl 16 gear off the mobs may have had something to do with it too I suppose.

But it doesn't bother me I've been able to help defend with her when SL players could not ir did not want to play a bard.

Just help defend RK with a different toon from AO if you want to and farm them for gear.

[Rainswept]

I know it's minor, Zerg. The toon in question is 40 and AO, so it's not as if he even needs RK faction for any particular reason. I guess this threads gone on longer than I intended, sorry.

[Rufio]

I think it is fine as it is. Why are we trying to force politics on a pw? Shouldn't the players be the ones creating the politics?

[Tal]

We need health care reform... to many toons are still alive and healthy.

[Rainswept]

We need health care reform... to many toons are still alive and healthy.

Lol well I try to do my part.

If a Moderator follows this thread, please lock it at my request, pretty much everythings been said.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Disputing the points I've made in a thread is not at all the same as misrepresenting out of context quotes on unrelated subjects and coupling them with snide insinuations about my builds. "Mine do this, don't yours?" and comments of that nature are not in any way relevant to a discussion on the correctness or incorrectness of the current reputation system. It's known as ad hominem, and it's certainly not a valid debate technique.

I've said my peace about those remarks, if you'd like to discuss it further, feel free to PM me.

The only one who was being snide or took things out of context was you. She wasn't using Ad Hominem arguments, which in their most base form attack someone personally in order to invalidate them. What she was doing was entirely different by taking your examples and showing how they were invalid or incorrect, or even using them to prove her own argument.

If you're goin to use big words, try and use them correctly.

That is a direct attack against you personally. Now do you see the difference? Oh yes, I've got my "Captain Condescending" hat on now.

Why would I PM you personally, its so much more fun to discuss this in public.

[Tsavong]

I know it's minor, Zerg. The toon in question is 40 and AO, so it's not as if he even needs RK faction for any particular reason. I guess this threads gone on longer than I intended, sorry.

Its not so easy to get back rep for an allied faction as you have to come by there relic that's why I haven't bothered my bard and if I am going to defend SL I have other toons I can use.

[Eldaquen]

Rainswept, if you took what I wrote as a personal attack, it was not meant to be nor intended to be. I do disagree with making regaining faction easier. My intent was to counter argue your points that I disagreed with.

I gave other reasons as why changing this part of NS4 would be hinderance to others that rely on the system that is in place. Those reasons are there and no need to repost or restate what was said. (edit to fix sentence structure)

When I see a post that only gives, in my opinion, one side of an issue or brings to light only a part of discussion at hand: how else do you elabrate on another's point without meantioning it?

Crazy, thank you.