Ranger and Summon creature IV

[Shamedmonkey]

Are we on this again? Really? Rangers are amazing.

Leave it alone, Twiggy. You're yet again whining about pure classes.

[Twiggy]

Are we on this again? Really? Rangers are amazing.

Leave it alone, Twiggy. You're yet again whining about pure classes.

no dipped rangers are amazing, yes i'm on this again.

1. i don't whine. Whining has a voice inflection that makes it very irratating, being in an opposing position does not make someone whining. and because it goes against what you want doesn't make it whining. I am making reasonable arguments to propose for implementation.

2. rangers aren't amazing, did u read the link? dipped rangers are amazing. pure rangers are not.

3. Shamed perhaps we should remove pure class bonuses then? no more pure fighters and pally's and barbs.

[Shamedmonkey]

I'd be perfectly fine with it, but I still think they are a necessary evil. Simply because they do allow newer players to build relevant builds in PvP. However, I do not think that pure classes should be as powerful as multiclass builds. Ever. You should be rewarded for coming up with creativity in your builds. Not have a pure fighter, barb, or whatever, do it better than you.

[Amoenotep]

maybe you should come up with a unique pure class instead of thinking they are all the same?

[Twiggy]

maybe you should come up with a unique pure class instead of thinking they are all the same?

Thank You!

and why should you be rewarded for trying to find one thing that a class does well and exploiting it till it get's nerfed? then whining when it get's nerfed becuase you built your whole toons function on that one ability? build a class that can stand on it's own without relying on one ability. cause that is the only thing multiclassing does.


hahaha multiclassing adds versatility shamed. not power. nor should it EVER.

u can come up with creative build pure classing. there are different races to choose from. different ways to go with classes. IE. casting druid vs. dragon druid. str fighter vs dex fighter. and a whole lot of different feats to choose from.

[Bargeld]

I can't wait to fight your 40s

[Carejo]

When is Lokey going to finish Favored Souls, Neo-LA's Non-Prestige Prestige Class?

[Twiggy]

I can't wait to fight your 40s

works betters in a party. berg everything has a weakness. if u make a sd i'll make a pure cleric spotter. if u make a fighter i'll make a mage.

also pure classes work better in parties. a pure 40 rogue, works amazing with other people. I can make a tanking rogue, with edodge 50 conceal and pretty high ac. (not sure havn't made it on this server.) but his damage will be horrible. unless he sneaks

[alasteir]

Twiggy,

In regard to rangers, I don't understand your "dip class" reference. How many levels of ranger does a toon require to qualify as a ranger......10,15,20? Are you suggesting that they have to be pure?
Rangers have always been my favorite class.....even the ol' PnP days, but they are the last class on this server that need buffed.
There are many nice builds on this server that are largely ranger-based.....In addition, many of these builds are heavy in the ranger levels....20+.

[Daral0085]

Ranger is definitely an amazing class. Lots of powerful ranger builds, and most of them are heavy-ranger and not dip. Dipping in ranger is generally.... ok, but not great. It really shines when you get a stack of FE bonuses, hips and BoE. Not to mention tons of bonus feats.

Tep: I'd like to think we have some moderately creative pure class builds. Absolute Terror is one, we have a couple pure druids, pallies, but really there just won't be as much flexibility in pure class builds than multiclass builds. Multi-classing adds so much more complexity that there really isn't any comparison. No pre/post epic split to think about, no AB/saves tradeoff, no tradeoffs at all really. You just have to choose race, feats and stats, and that defines a pure class build. Ohh look at how creative I am, I cross-classed taunt on my pure fighter. Anything that you can do to "be creative" with a pure class build, you can also do with multiclass. Plus another 10 types of optimizations. Corner-sneaking pure barb? Fine, I'll make a corner sneaking cleric/monk/WM, and I think we can both guess which of the two will be harder to optimize.

[Rufio]

Rangers are fine. I have a ranger with 30 ranger levels, and I love it. A pure ranger would be doable I guess, but it is helpful to dip into another class or two to pick up on some more abilities and skills.

[mining]

i hear a lot of "rangers are soo good!" but yet i look at this post and it seems like people ignore this

http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns/viewto ... t=set+trap

also people say pure class bonuses are the devil. yet pure class bonuses where implemented. contradiction there. then people say some classes are meant to be dip classes. yet pure fighters where given bonuses.....fighters seem a pretty big dip class.

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Pure class bonus are the devil because they discourage versatility and blah blah blah. They're fine, we don't need more of them. It did make Barbarian viable, though.

seems people need to make up there minds. I for one would like to see better pure classes that do what they do. just MHO


casting classes don't need a boost except for druids. rangers need a boost to survivability and spotting/setting traps/hiding/move silently/search. rogues need something so they aren't targeted by AI and boost to pick locks/disable traps/hide/move silently/umd/search/listening/pickpocket(honestly should be removed being used on PC's)

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Druids need a big boost, agreed. Rangers... Are fine. Rogues, pure rogue... Nah. The class is designed (DnD designed) for dipping, not going pure. 

locks dc's could be increased, disabling traps dc's could be increased, pick pocketable special items on bosses implemented to make skill more useful outa pvp, spotting traps dc lowered for rogues to accomodate rogues/pure rogues usefullness. (I know diping in rogue is very useful, but when a wizard can unlock an item it removes rogues usefullness)

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DC 90 isn't high enough for ya? Trap DC is based on set trap.

spotting could be made easier for rangers, setting traps dc could be lowered for rangers, and dual wielding weapons could add ac if ur a ranger.

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Favored enemies. One with the land. Monk levels.

made a suggestion for druids already.

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We have. Its called 'enable our spells. Give us more DC. Give us haste.'

if u make a sd i'll make a pure cleric spotter

And I'll rofl as your 21 spot + feats fails hard.

pure 40 rogue, works amazing with other people. I can make a tanking rogue, with edodge 50 conceal and pretty high ac.

Said rogue will have wasted 5 feats on an II rod, and probably not have discipline or AB, thus be on the floor and incapable of hitting.

and why should you be rewarded for trying to find one thing that a class does well and exploiting it till it get's nerfed? then whining when it get's nerfed becuase you built your whole toons function on that one ability? build a class that can stand on it's own without relying on one ability. cause that is the only thing multiclassing does.

Hmm? Sancreed and Gold got nerfed, and yet they're still fine, despite being built around one ability. Tons of examples, not enough time (lame 'I has 100 AC/80 AC and spells/twf' builds excepted for CHEESE.)

hahaha multiclassing adds versatility shamed. not power. nor should it EVER.

Then why does WM exist? CoT? Assassin? SD? Those all add power to the base class.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... .5_Dragoon
Thats one of the most powerful 'notacasterthatbreaksthegameinstantly' builds in DnD. Multiclassing galore.

maybe you should come up with a unique pure class instead of thinking they are all the same?

Maybe we have? Maybe we just don't build them because we have X time and Y items and Z books, and want to use them in a way that facilitates our enjoyment the best.

I'd be perfectly fine with it, but I still think they are a necessary evil.

Also, they are a hard counter to any build. Nothing is gonna stay upright from a pure fighter / pure barbarians disables, and the party can then kill him. Fast.

no dipped rangers are amazing, yes i'm on this again.

40 ranger... IIRC 65 AB, 78 AC? Something like that. Not a bad build at all. .

if done as intended ( dual wielding since they get no bow perks like in nwn2 )

Uh, 'if intended' we can say that Rogues are meant to be really dumb and run into traps because of uncanny dodge.
We can say that Paladins are meant to be cha based entirely because thats the way their abilities run.
You can use a gods damned shield, people.

If you really want, I'll write up a pure ranger build for you.

[mining]

If you really want, I'll write up a pure ranger build for you.

Blegh.
AB:

30 BAB
04 feats
02 BoE
18 dex
----
54 AB
----
08 weapon
02 aid
01 blinding
----
65 AB (Yay, I was right)



AC:

10 base
05 nat
05 def
02 AS
06 armor
09 shield
04 gith
02 BS
05 boots
18 dex
----
66 AC
----
04 tumble
----
70 AC.
Blegh, ok, I was wrong. Must've been thinking of one that dips 1 rogue and 5 harper scout to get 8 AC.

[Twiggy]

mining where the hell do you come from? crawl back in your whole. Noone wants your input. Ok maybe your mother might, but i sure don't. I don't need a pure ranger build up. I hate that u nitpick one wrong thing and ignore the main basis of the topic. go back to je***** off in a fricken corner.


I understand other things should be done before this. Priorities. but regardless rangers (and other classes) need some pure love. 30 ranger isn't pure.

when i said dip i used it incorrectly, i meant going some ranger (or mostly ranger) and doing other classes in with.

also an II wand is only good until u get dispelled. conceal feats last all the time. conceal also help against kd and other feats. can't kd what u can't hit.

daral, tep's comment was aimed more at shamed. also multiclassing isn't being creative. i hate that term being thrown out cause i am a very creative person, but i enjoy pure classes. I want to say it is just complicated but that doesn't do mulitclassing justice. to figure out a good multiclass build takes ingenuity not creativity. in that if u invest in your ingenuity it is useful. not necessarily meaning u have no ingenuity if u don't mulitclass. It doesn't take creativity to put a bunch of facts in a spread sheet to find out the best possible solution. or by looking up what one class does and adding it to another class.


(if someone says something about "my fighter/wm with absurdly large ab can kd anything" all i have to say is fighters should be able to beat rogues. unless you have more than one and they are sneaking the crap out of you. or they ambush you and u run over a bunch of traps)

[Carejo]

mining where the hell do you come from? crawl back in your whole. Noone wants your input. Ok maybe your mother might, but i sure don't. I don't need a pure ranger build up. I hate that u nitpick one wrong thing and ignore the main basis of the topic. go back to je***** off in a fricken corner.