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Blystos Re · Post by **Blystos Re** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:19 pm

CoT is most effective for combating evil when combined with Paladin, so more often than not you'll see them as LG.

Paladin can't be combined with Bard, so people wishing to take the route of a bard who is a dedicated agent of good and looking for a good PrC will take CoT.

CoT's only have 3 choices for alignments, 2 are smiteable.

And the point is already made, though I will bring it back to focus, that PMs have a leg up on both Paladins and CoTs because neither of the two latter have immunity to crit, sneak or stun. It takes up one feat for a PM to be able to crit on a roll of 12. It takes several feats for smite to be used effectively.

As I have said before, there are plenty of LG or NG characters in NC alone, without making this restriction that would only really take another build combo away from them. We're already here. Where are the blackguards?

And if you don't have to smite Pale Masters to kill them, then why is everyone so defensive about an alignment restriction? Any time the nerf bat comes out about pale masters, all I hear is people crying foul.

...I'd really have to see a blackguard before I could think of them, Pup. There haven't been any major players on the blackguard team in a long while.

**EDIT** Thanks, Fricebottle, I almost forgot. Kick SD off the server? Go ahead, but you need to give NC another means of attaining Uncanny Dodge if you do. Which means rogues.

Here's a thought... let's give CoT crit immunity as well. That takes care of things right there.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:32 pm

Since I seemed to miss the topic of Shadow Dancers here, it doesn't matter how much they spawn Hide in Plain Sight. All you need are effective AoE spells and boom, problem no more.

Ebenezer Grymm · Post by **Ebenezer Grymm** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:53 pm

Not hardly as easy as u put it.

Sure maybe Wail. Of course though if you don't land on the 1st one they are deafened and immune and you're wide open for a bit.

Other than Wail, you can only guess as to where they are.

Love how you make it sound so simple and easy, kind of like how you dwarves say "No our knockdown token isn't over powered, it's only a 30 DC" but never mention it ignores spellcraft and other bonuses.

I love hearing the CLAD comments also because, well, pvp advice from a CLAD is like fashion advice from a blind man, but I digress this isn't a flame thread.

Main thing is my point of SD is the only class that has to be specifically built around to counter is still valid, and moving HIPS to lvl 10 or adding Amplify items to the server would help counter the ridiculousness of the feat.

Or even bettr yet, make SD the Shadow Legion prestige class. LA could have Assassins. AO Assassins make sense, so do MA and even maybe RK Assassins. And Shadow Dancer seems to be the logical fit for the Shadow Legion, and would definitely bring new life to the faction.

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:00 pm

why in the world would the server allow neutral COT's?

oi that makes about as much sense as the hole "making yourself a lich isnt an evil act" argument.

......

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:44 pm

Ebenezer Grymm wrote:Not hardly as easy as u put it.

Sure maybe Wail. Of course though if you don't land on the 1st one they are deafened and immune and you're wide open for a bit.

Other than Wail, you can only guess as to where they are.

Shows how much you know about the game. Theres also Implosion, and using some intuition you just wait for an SD to attack you or an ally and then implode them where they stand.

Ebenezer Grymm wrote:Love how you make it sound so simple and easy, kind of like how you dwarves say "No our knockdown token isn't over powered, it's only a 30 DC" but never mention it ignores spellcraft and other bonuses.

Because it is so simple and easy, all you have to do is make a counter build. And that doesn't even make sense, over powered and 30 DC shouldn't even be in the same sentence. I don't care if it ignores spellcraft or other bonuses, if you're failing a level 30 Will save at level 40 then theres something wrong.

Ebenezer Grymm wrote:I love hearing the CLAD comments also because, well, pvp advice from a CLAD is like fashion advice from a blind man, but I digress this isn't a flame thread.

You're just lashing out at everyone now aren't you?

Ebenezer Grymm wrote:Main thing is my point of SD is the only class that has to be specifically built around to counter is still valid, and moving HIPS to lvl 10 or adding Amplify items to the server would help counter the ridiculousness of the feat.

Actually HIPs has been moved to level 5 effectively for that very reason, so Zing has already covered that. Its not a ridiculous class, just because its good doesn't mean its ridiculous. The same could be said of the Pale Master PrC.

Ebenezer Grymm wrote:Or even bettr yet, make SD the Shadow Legion prestige class. LA could have Assassins. AO Assassins make sense, so do MA and even maybe RK Assassins. And Shadow Dancer seems to be the logical fit for the Shadow Legion, and would definitely bring new life to the faction.

I remember this idea of Shadow Dancers in the Shadow Legion, but it got shot down. Someone suggested LA get Harper Scouts, which was even more crazy. Although it makes some RP-Sense, have to take in the tender PvP Sense of it. Nearly all Dex-Builds and Sneak Builds outside of SL would be ineffective.