Subrace SR Increase

Post by **LinuxPup** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:37 pm

Quick question...

I understand the SR is a buff with infinite duration... is there a trigger or event (not sure what they call it in NWN's engine) when you are raised or you respawn that can restore the character's SR? It seems like there might be some sort of place you can run custom code here since you are set as invincible during respawning (a very welcome fix

).

Also, when the code is stripping the buffs off a character when they steal the relic, can this avoid stripping SR or restore the character's SR after all buffs are stripped?

As a software engineer this doesn't seem so hard, but then I haven't played around much with Bioware's API.

disastro · Post by **disastro** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:22 pm

LinuxPup wrote:Quick question...

I understand the SR is a buff with infinite duration... is there a trigger or event (not sure what they call it in NWN's engine) when you are raised or you respawn that can restore the character's SR?

the trigger that should be run when a player is raised, respawned, or grabs a relic is "player should hit the rest button"

if you are combat-raised you are 9 times out of 10 hosed for a million other reasons anyway lol.

Post by **LinuxPup** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:29 pm

Nope.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:18 pm

i've noticed that invisibility and bardsong do not get stripped, but i wonder if the 'natural' subrace SR buff can be left in place, since the engine might see these as being the same, guess it would have to do a subrace check before stripping SR - but then what if you have a buddie's 50SR buff and you're level 35? but you're a gith? there's a potential problem.

Which leads me to another relic change.. what if you had to defeat ALL attackers AND rest before you could leave the zone with a relic in-hand? That would make it a bit more challenging, and fair when you have for ex: a single or pair of monks running in circles, grabbing relics and running away without any pvp (which still happens all the time if the said monks are good enough players that they can avoid being hit)

as for combat-rezzed, i guess you haven't been in any tLB + HNs parties... I know I always try to keep everyone alive during boss fights and high level epic zones so that everyone gets all the XP possible, pvp is a bit different since there isn't xp loss or gain involved mostly.

disastro · Post by **disastro** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:21 am

Celorn wrote:i've noticed that invisibility and bardsong do not get stripped
..
Which leads me to another relic change.. what if you had to defeat ALL attackers AND rest before you could leave the zone with a relic in-hand?

not sure about bard song but I'm pretty sure invis gets stripped when you grab a relic.

I had also considered suggesting a requirement that everybody be killed before you get a relic, however it would make relic defense too easy (especially if the defenders bind in their hometown). a monk could simply run around in circles as you mentioned (something monks have gotten really good at), preventing any relic grabs. or a hipser could just stand in a corner and hide doing nothing (which should probably not count as "defense").

or a couple of defenders could simply run in, get killed, respawn, repeat. some bind points are close enough that you wouldnt be able to rest and run the relic timer before someone was back again. if you reduce the relic timer to deal with that, then non-local defenders lose time to get back to defend.

the current timer system works pretty well i think.

Post by **LinuxPup** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:20 pm

Perhaps a compromise can be made where one gets an SR of level + 11 if they are pure classed and have no pure class bonuses, and level + 5 if they are multi-classed or have pure bonuses (like pure fighter bonuses).

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:33 am

well no trade needed i think. ecl 3 is such a huge penelty.

ecl 3 sub races should indeed have some huge bonus's.

as it is earth gen should be ecl3 imo.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:42 am

earth gen isn't all THAT amazing really.... ECL2 is appropriate. -- (and i hope the earth gen ability doesn't work at all if the toon is a cleric without the earth domain).

As for the SR increase, I could see that a pure class could maybe get a bonus, but definitely not otherwise.

Post by **Umpa** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:47 pm

DONT mess with SR, it works fine, once you understand it. Messing with SR will throw the whole game out of wack in many areas you do not understand.

SR was not to allow several things your asking for, its to help counter the power of the wizard/cleric.

Your computations are off, there is already an advantage for wizards in this, and it takes a special build process to counter this, which got the nerf on bigbies which made it useless because a few people managed to figure out the correct math and build. Which was silly.

Dont mess with SR, if anything remove it on other races, its not ment to be given out like candy.

A level 30 wizard should not have advantage over a level 40 pure monk, monks are caster counters. They will fail SR.

-BannyD- · Post by **-BannyD-** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:11 pm

When i recently rolled up an ECL 3 for SR bonus I never imagined being able to have spells from dedicated casters fizz off of me. What I took it for was to be immune to, frankly, Word of Faith from pesky melee multiclassed clerics. I am pretty sure I will be. To me (i like dex toons) this is a -huge- bonus that I get for just a little more time invested into the character. Not going down in a split second after a WoF hits me would be a godsend...

In another note, I do not think a subrace should give the means to overpower or match the power of a toon fully focused in whatever...in this case...spell penetration. For those casters that do go pure and do take epic penetration, they should be able to pierce a simply subrace SR. Im sure they would have rather taken another spell focus instead of penetration if they could get away with it. The available subrace SR almost forces that upon casters and hey...dont forget that those toons that are -not- pure and do -not- have all the penetration feats...will have a miserable time vs your ECL 3, thats good enough for me (just make the svirfneblin item give 50% concealment

)

Post by **LinuxPup** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:50 pm

SR was not to allow several things your asking for, its to help counter the power of the wizard/cleric.

Well yeah... or to protect against any caster for that matter. What am I asking for besides that? SR is pretty simple to understand.

Your computations are off, there is already an advantage for wizards in this, and it takes a special build process to counter this, which got the nerf on bigbies which made it useless because a few people managed to figure out the correct math and build. Which was silly.

What computations are that? And if there's already an advantage for wizards, then increasing the SR shouldn't be a problem. However, the fact is, this would affect mages the least... especially given greater spell breach and Mords.

Dont mess with SR, if anything remove it on other races, its not ment to be given out like candy.

Given out like candy? Try reaching level 40 on an ECL 3 subrace...

A level 30 wizard should not have advantage over a level 40 pure monk, monks are caster counters. They will fail SR.

Well at 10 levels lower, of course a wiz is going to fail vs. a monk... a pure level 40 wiz on the hand won't very easily. Not sure what this has to do with the discussion though.

One the reasons why I'm thinking it would be a good idea to allow pure class ECL 3 folks to have SR = level + 11 instead of +5, is it puts pure casters and pure builds on a equal and level ground. Likewise, a multi-classed caster's SR penetration is matched with a multi-classed ECL 3's lower SR.

So for example, my level 40 Githyanki Pale Master would continue to be easily hit by spells from Summoned Dire Halfling (who has 100% chance of success vs. my SR), but not easy from a multi-classed cleric like Matrix or Celorn...

But if I built a pure classed level 40 Svirfneblin, it would be cool to take the penalties of being pure classed in exchange for higher SR.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:36 am

It's true... since the wipe with all the new higher-stat gear, and the last major changes to some spells, along with the shortened durations (mostly cleric), the once powerful mutlclass clerics are a dying breed.

I always favored bards anyhow, and my bard/bg pre-wipe was a menace ;P

As for pure class SR bonus, I don't think it's really needed - there ARE benefits for being pure (as has been stated) so it's not like they REALLY need something, they need some kind of achilles heel. And besides, with the last 3 planes that went in, it's not really that hard to level an ECL3 toon anymore -- ie: PRE-wipe I did get my drow to lvl38 before the first planes opened, then once I was hitting bosses, 40 was easy.

Wolfarus · Post by **Wolfarus** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:58 am

The biggest advantage a e-gen has is the ac boost / damage reduction token. Have you played an e-gen in anything higher then the ice giants? Against 2 or more attackers, the shield / ac comes down extreamly fast. Ive had it torn down in under 10 seconds just by the mobs in the nexus, much less the planes themselves.

Given that the prime e-gen ability dosnt last that long against mobs over lvl 21..

Id take away the redundent +2 to fort save, the acid reduction, darkvision. And lower the Ecl to +1. If it could be fixed that the AC boost stays with the player for 24 game hours (or until rest) then id say put it back up to ecl 2.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:15 pm

Wolfarus wrote:The biggest advantage a e-gen has is the ac boost / damage reduction token. Have you played an e-gen in anything higher then the ice giants? Against 2 or more attackers, the shield / ac comes down extreamly fast. Ive had it torn down in under 10 seconds just by the mobs in the nexus, much less the planes themselves.

Given that the prime e-gen ability dosnt last that long against mobs over lvl 21..

LOL you're asking ME? I've played and leveled 3 earth-gen clerics to lvl40 (pre wipe, post wipe and on reflections)... I've been there and beaten all the planar bosses - Even --soloed-- Ragnar's room, Ebby, Shadow boss, Alzara, etc.. and have beaten the other bosses with a party of 2 or 3.

I have no trouble with the shield, it does exactly what I expect it to do -- and there are 'ways' of making it last a bit longer, but really with proper strategy or a well rounded party, my shield often lasts until it goes away on its own - or until I rest. (Exceptions being for big Neg/pos plane spawns, or draco's lair in HoD).

Wolfarus wrote:Id take away the redundent +2 to fort save, the acid reduction, darkvision. And lower the Ecl to +1. If it could be fixed that the AC boost stays with the player for 24 game hours (or until rest) then id say put it back up to ecl 2.

The fort save is still nice (ie: stupid monks), 50% acid is nice against mages with acid sheild or slaads, and the ac boost does last a very long time if you play it right.

Wolfarus · Post by **Wolfarus** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:52 pm

actually that was in response to mgrjeb's comment about egens needing to be +3. I never did master the allmighty forum art of quoting and responding