Pure Class Builds

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:51 pm

It is not the rogues forte` to go "toe to toe" with anything. We rogues must be more creative and 'hopefully' a little faster than the mobs. We can survive without being babysat, we just have to be a little more careful in the battles we engage upon. I don't have a problem with waiting until 40 to get the perk of a pure build, I just hope it is worth it. Maybe they can add a multiplier to the sneak damage.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:40 pm

i dont think there should be anything specific to pure builds excpt mabey upon hitting level 40 they can go to a store only accesable to level 40 pure builds ( or level 30 prcs)

in this store thay can buy whatever they want but its all non drop so they cant pawn it off to lower leel characters. this might make it better for a character who wants to have a varity of stuff they can get not just one item.

I do however think the items should be a little overpowered since it would take lots of sacraficing to get there.

Throst54 · Post by **Throst54** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:04 pm

MasterYoda wrote:i dont think there should be anything specific to pure builds excpt mabey upon hitting level 40 they can go to a store only accesable to level 40 pure builds ( or level 30 prcs)

in this store thay can buy whatever they want but its all non drop so they cant pawn it off to lower leel characters. this might make it better for a character who wants to have a varity of stuff they can get not just one item.

I do however think the items should be a little overpowered since it would take lots of sacraficing to get there.

this goes back to the problem of only getting the bonus at lvl 40.
gear alone for pure builds is going to greatly favor more pure than others.

seriouslynow · Post by **seriouslynow** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:35 am

Lorkar1 wrote:It is not the rogues forte` to go "toe to toe" with anything. We rogues must be more creative and 'hopefully' a little faster than the mobs. We can survive without being babysat, we just have to be a little more careful in the battles we engage upon. I don't have a problem with waiting until 40 to get the perk of a pure build, I just hope it is worth it. Maybe they can add a multiplier to the sneak damage.

Definitely not the rogue's forte to go toe-to-toe. True. Being a little faster than the mobs sounds nice but doesn't pan out. You sneak up on something, get one hit and then what. Run? Hide? They run just as fast so basically toe-to-toe is all you got left. In terms of this game where corner sneaking doesn't seem to work on mobs you are basically a lame dex-based fighter with low damage, less attacks, lower ab, and weak and limited magic options to choose from (speaking from the point of view of being relatively new here). If you play here often and have guild buddies to aid you in leveling this isn't a problem. If not, better hope you got that eternal drow darkness. So yeah, whatever the pure class bonus is, it will have to balance out the loss of HIPS.

Deicide · Post by **Deicide** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:03 pm

What about giving pure build cumulative boosts to certain abilities?
The boosts would begin at 10th level and some Class/Prestige Class (preference to a Faction Prestige Class) combos could receive boosts as if they were pure. Use something like this:

Fighter or Fighter/Dwarven Defender
10th level - +1 Str
15th level - +1 Con
20th level - +1 Str
25th level - +1 Con
30th level - +1 Str, +1 Dex
35th level - +1 Con, +1 Dex
40th level - +2 Str

Total: +5 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Con

Rogue or Rogue/Assassin
10th level - +1 Dex
15th level - +1 Int
20th level - +1 Con
25th level - +1 Dex
30th level - +1 Str, +1 Con
35th level - +1 Dex, +1 Int
40th level - +2 Dex

Total: +1 Str, +5 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int

Paladin or Paladin/CoT

10th level - +1 Str
15th level - +1 Cha
20th level - +1 Con
25th level - +1 Str
30th level - +1 Wis, +1 Cha
35th level - +1 Str, +1 Wis
40th level - +1 Con, +1 Cha

Total: +3 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +3 Cha

Well, I must go now, but once I get home I'll finish the other classes.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Thu May 04, 2006 6:59 pm

something about pure class bonuses...say you go 25 straight lvls in a class and recieve bonuses for the class. if you take a different class lvl later on you lose all the bonuses you would normally have gotten right? cuz if not it might be kind of exploitable to produce the next super unkillable build.

Deicide · Post by **Deicide** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:12 pm

Ok, forget about the previous post. I think pure ability increases would be too much, after thinking a while about it. So, use this version instead (a pity I can't edit posts around here):

Bard

10th level - +1 Cha
15th level - +1 Dex
20th level - +1 AC
25th level - +1 Saves
30th level - +1 Dex, +1 Cha
35th level - +1 Con, +1 AC
40th level - +1 Cha, +1 Con

Total: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +3 Cha, +2 AC, +1 Saves

Barbarian
10th level - +1 Str
15th level - +1 Con
20th level - +1 AC
25th level - +1 Saves
30th level - +1 Str, +1 AC
35th level - +1 Con, +1 Dex
40th level - +1 Str, +1 Con

Total: +3 Str, +1 Dex, +3 Con, +2 AC, +1 Saves

Fighter or Fighter/Dwarven Defender
10th level - +1 AC
15th level - +1 Str
20th level - +1 Con
25th level - +1 Des
30th level - +1 Str, +1 Saves
35th level - +1 Con, +1 Str
40th level - +1 Str, +1 Con

Total: +4 Str, +1 Dex, +3 Con, +1 AC, +1 Saves

Rogue or Rogue/Assassin
10th level - +1 Dex
15th level - +1 AC
20th level - +1 Con
25th level - +1 Dex
30th level - +1 Str, +1 Con
35th level - +1 Dex, +1 AC
40th level - +1 Dex, +1 Str

Total: +2 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Con, +2 AC

Paladin or Paladin/CoT

10th level - +1 Str
15th level - +1 Cha
20th level - +1 Con
25th level - +1 AC
30th level - +1 Wis, +1 Saves
35th level - +1 Con, +1 AC
40th level - +1 Str, +1 Cha

Total: +2 Str, +2 Con, +1 Wis, +2 Cha , +2 AC, +1 Saves

Ranger

10th level - +1 Dex
15th level - +1 AC
20th level - +1 Con
25th level - +1 Wis
30th level - +1 Dex, +1 Str
35th level - +1 Con, +1 AC
40th level - +1 Str, +1 Saves

Total: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +1 Wis, +2 AC, +1 Saves

Cleric

10th level - +1 Wis
15th level - +1 Con
20th level - +1 Str
25th level - +1 Cha
30th level - +1 Wis, +1 AC
35th level - +1 Con, +1 Str
40th level - +1 Dex, +1 Wis

Total: +2 Str, +1 Dex, +2 Con, +3 Wis, +1 Cha, +1 AC

Druid or Druid/Shifter

10th level - +1 Wis
15th level - +1 Con
20th level - +1 AC
25th level - +1 Str
30th level - +1 Wis, +1 AC
35th level - +1 Con, +1 Wis
40th level - +1 Dex, +1 Wis

Total: +1 Str, +1 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Wis, +2 AC

Monk

10th level - +1 Str
15th level - +1 Con
20th level - +1 Wis
25th level - +1 Dex
30th level - +1 Str, +1 AC
35th level - +1 Con, +1 Dex
40th level - +1 Wis, +1 AC

Total: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 AC

Mage or Mage/Palemaster

10th level - +1 Int
15th level - +1 AC
20th level - +1 Con
25th level - +1 Dex
30th level - +1 Int, +1 AC
35th level - +1 Con, +1 Dex
40th level - +2 Int

Total: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Int, +2 AC

Sorcerer or Sorcerer/Palemaster

10th level - +1 Cha
15th level - +1 AC
20th level - +1 Con
25th level - +1 Dex
30th level - +1 Cha, +1 AC
35th level - +1 Con, +1 Dex
40th level - +2 Cha

Total: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Cha, +2 AC

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:19 pm

you can edit your own posts...just use the edit button on the top of the post.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:25 pm

We really need something to allow rogues to make their sneak attacks however. In normal D&D, yes rogues are worth it due to all of their skills. However, it is not possible to recreate all these advantages into a videogame. So the sneak attack ability becomes one of the rogue's two major favorites. Open lock and disable trap are used sometimes, but not like its unplanned. The second is the hide and move silently skills. Being able to disappear is everything for a row, for toe-to-toe is just not an option, period. This is where SD comes in to enable both abilities to be used after the first round when the monster starts to chase the rogue. I'd say that rogues really get epic after level 10 (Crippling Strike, etc.). At level 11 they receive the Invisibility ability 1/day. At level 14, 2/day. At level 17, 3/day. At level 20, 4/day. At level 21 it becomes improved invisibility. Every three levels after the ability is usable once more perday.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:30 pm

Rogues already have UMD as a class skill and there is an infinite supply of invis out there.
What you want is already possible, go figure it out for yourself.

PeregrineV · Post by **PeregrineV** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:58 pm

Death Dealer1 wrote:something about pure class bonuses...say you go 25 straight lvls in a class and recieve bonuses for the class. if you take a different class lvl later on you lose all the bonuses you would normally have gotten right? cuz if not it might be kind of exploitable to produce the next super unkillable build.

That's why I think the bonuses should come into play when the multi-class option no longer exists. Anything before and you have to have some *tag* that says your going pure class AND the code has to exist to enforce it.

Let the bonuses come at the high levels, and let them be highly worthy bonuses, that make the the best of thier class.

Throst54 · Post by **Throst54** » Thu May 04, 2006 8:42 pm

PeregrineV wrote:
Death Dealer1 wrote:something about pure class bonuses...say you go 25 straight lvls in a class and recieve bonuses for the class. if you take a different class lvl later on you lose all the bonuses you would normally have gotten right? cuz if not it might be kind of exploitable to produce the next super unkillable build.
That's why I think the bonuses should come into play when the multi-class option no longer exists. Anything before and you have to have some *tag* that says your going pure class AND the code has to exist to enforce it.

Let the bonuses come at the high levels, and let them be highly worthy bonuses, that make the the best of thier class.

having them come in only a high levels would not promote adventuring at lower lvls. Not to mention if it was something they just did at high lvls they could just make lvl 40 pure class gear only.

seriouslynow · Post by **seriouslynow** » Thu May 04, 2006 11:58 pm

Deicide, I kinda see what you're saying for the bonuses for pure class builds but don't know if it is all doable. Do the devs have a way to increase your base stats? or are the stat increases you're suggesting just adding to the +12 cap?

Deicide · Post by **Deicide** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:49 am

seriouslynow wrote:Deicide, I kinda see what you're saying for the bonuses for pure class builds but don't know if it is all doable. Do the devs have a way to increase your base stats? or are the stat increases you're suggesting just adding to the +12 cap?

I do not know how the NWN engine works and what are its limitations. I am just making suggestions. The devs are the ones that must decide if they can and how they can implement those ideas. Also, these ideas are the raw thing: I think we can make them better if everyone gives some advice on how to improve them.

Post by **TGPO** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:05 am

Well, let me say that we have been looking at pure class bonuses for some time. Its been one of the things that has been on the back burner since before I had my first look at NS4 closed beta.

I'll let you in on a few things that has already been decided about this.

1: It will be sliding scale starting when the character goes Epic (give or take a level or 2).
2: If you stray from being Pure Class, all the bonuses associated with it are retro-activly removed.
3: Pure Class means no multiclassing at all, no PrC's. See Item 2. The reason for this is you already get a boat load of advantages over a pure class when you take a second class, PrC or not.

Now then, just because we already have a frame work for this in mind does not mean that we wont adjust things here and there. We have been watching the thread for ideas and suggestions that we can use. Nor does it mean that because we have that framework that it will make it into the game anytime (ahem) soon.

Keep up the thought processes though guys. Alot of good stuff here so far.