Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

[Rufio]

unfortunately people bypass venge logging rules by dual logging. It is incredibly lame, but really hard to enforce.

I have enjoyed lowbie pvp, but I got used to avoiding pvp at low levels in the past because it seemed like every other person you ran into was either buffed up to unkillable status by a high level cleric, had a cleric trailing behind them, or both.

[Lokey]

Actually it doesn't bypass. DMs usually don't choose to enforce in that case, and it's easy for them to tell.

[mining]

Actually it doesn't bypass. DMs usually don't choose to enforce in that case, and it's easy for them to tell.

Yep, by strict RAW reading of "V - Thou shalt not relog any character to exact revenge on a lost PvP fight, whether higher or lower in level than your original character." you are instantly venge logging if you use dual logged characters both in pvp.

[Bargeld]

Actually, from a RAW reading standpoint, 99% of the time it's not a 'relog' per the exact wording. If someone is out leveling a lowbie without any dual logging, then they get killed, so they lay there dead, log the second computer for the first time (not a re-log in any definition of the word) then exact revenge.

Or they have their buffer with them, 3 maps behind, and get killed on the lowbie, so they just run the buffer up and exact revenge. Since there was no 'relog' involved, it is within the written rule.

Spirit of the law vs the letter of the law.

[weasel423]

Actually it doesn't bypass. DMs usually don't choose to enforce in that case, and it's easy for them to tell.

Yep, by strict RAW reading of "V - Thou shalt not relog any character to exact revenge on a lost PvP fight, whether higher or lower in level than your original character." you are instantly venge logging if you use dual logged characters both in pvp.

So when AO has 6 raiders logged, and it is actually 2/3 people running all 6, they are venge logging?

[mining]

Actually it doesn't bypass. DMs usually don't choose to enforce in that case, and it's easy for them to tell.

Yep, by strict RAW reading of "V - Thou shalt not relog any character to exact revenge on a lost PvP fight, whether higher or lower in level than your original character." you are instantly venge logging if you use dual logged characters both in pvp.

So when AO has 6 raiders logged, and it is actually 2/3 people running all 6, they are venge logging?

Technically yes. We tend not to enforce because we'd just ban dual logging if we did, but being douchy and venge-logging is definitely on a hitlist. Probably Tep's.

[Lokey]

Technically no, relog is used in a technical sense that's not defined. So you strike it and see if the remainder makes sense, which it does. So they get a trip to the Thunderdome.

This is 1) why I didn't want specific rules at all and 2) immaterial because rule 0.

[Ryddwillow]

Is it not a PVP server? I mean you could have alot more ppl here if it wasn't so difficult to understand all the rules and bylaws. Everyone is game here lvl 1 to 40 th lvl. Make it easier to achieve the weapons and armor of choice in this game instead of bringing 20 of his mates to get dust. This is PVP not PVM. Ya miss the old days of red = dead? Well tell me 1 guild that has 20 players that play in the same guild on a certain night? Ya, I miss the blood and the cravings of red = dead? Make 2 teams.

Red = Dead means nothing to this server, because they are all friends with each guild. So are they going to be a Judas to their friends? "Ya I will kill the relic raider if it is him but otherwise we are friends". Soooooo where is the game from here? All old players are friends with all old players. Me, red = dead. Guess that is the new way instead of the old way, so that is where the server went. Who's fault is that?? This is a PVP server?

I used to give out gold to new ppl in my faction, no longer because of the dual and triple loggers. spy's and what sorts my donation has been revoked. hmmmm.

I like the mass killings in a faction without relic, or on giant slope. sad we have to farm for everything instead of playing the "true" game.

Some of the old DM's and players knew what friends were and factions but , the rest just cry for what we had.

[Ryddwillow]

the arena of pvp is the entire server though. since relics were put in players seem to think thats the only thing your supposed to fight over. cross factional lvling is where you start seeing that no one cares who's doing what or what faction they are because the goal is lvls not faction dominance.

if you guys killed each other more on sight it would be more fun to pvp in smaller groups or off settings than you think. i always attack parties of reds no matter what lvl i am....even if its lvl 3 in gobos..those be my gobos and i'm claiming them for my faction.

bunch of wussies now days

Sorry it isn't gonna happen here, meaning PVP except for relics hunting. Yes ppl on this server do not pvp, most ppl I must add. The problem is that everyone knows each other and belongs to 2 or more guilds, and dual logs or triple logs. The experienced players are mostly dual logged and tripled logged and have a high level player to rescue them from "Saving Grace" to their image by being pked at a low level. The low level areas are being farmed by high levels for books, so, hey, there is a pvp moment. The game has changed due to the ppl that run this game. The ppl that run this game need to look at themselves and try to understand what they created. 10 years ago this server just started out and pvp was really high due to factions protected each other and fought together. A few under the radar guilds brought much satisfaction to "us". A pure monk build 10 years ago was a sight to see and then he got defeated by a fighter/pm, the whole server was a bust in learning this news. Then came the Dragon forms, A truly beautiful thing to see, to watch them get the sneakers. Under the radar, guilds brought much enjoyment to this game, I mean really great fun, no time to be a sideline sitter.

The times have changed upon all of us, we see things in characters that need to be changed and the way ppl play them, and then the domino effect takes place and we are left to here.

Now to the future, if we look upon this server as a business, one must ask one self "how do we get more ppl here and keep them here?" That is the question here and if you think more new players are coming here then it is a sad moment to believe in. I call it a recycle process.

10 years old this truly great game is, make it like it supposed to be.



Just sour, guess I have been sour for awhile along with other ppl here and not here.

[Nyeleni]

10 years ago, ns4 didn't exist, and if you tried to kill somebody in ns2 which is where most of the very first veterans started then you got a huge problem coming your way. TC or The Chosen were patrolling (DD's own guild) and they didn't find it funny at all if you started a killing spree.

That said, I know you mean the start of ns4 beta. I was there, and the first months it was really fun although very tedious too. There weren't that many players who made the jump from ns3 to ns4. First because it was rather buggy, second because there were 4 different servers all having a portion of Aetheria. So if you wanted to go to Garagoth from Daeron passing through Avendell e.g., you had to cross all the continent (island, whatever it is) and in the same time pass through 4 different servers iirc.
If you had some trouble in one part and your friends played in another you were pretty much alone.
And lvl 28 was pretty much the highest you could or had to get to be able to defeat the hardest pvm there. It was still all in the flux. There was some pvp but rather scarce.

The red is dead which you like to call "real" pvp started with the okies and DD imo and when beta disappeared (whith the announced wipe) and NS4 proper appeared. CLAD was created to counter it a bit or at least help the new and low lvl chars slaughtered on the altar of killing sprees. It was when I left NS4 to look for greener pastures. Not that I despise pvp but just to kill because you can, is beyond anything I like. It rather makes players leave the server.

Thus to make it short: if we had the server you would like to have in NS4, it wouldn't exist anymore. 2 or 3 players would dominate over the others and the rest would just go away. Leaving a dead server behind. Why? Because uncontrolled pvp is far worse than the controlled environment we have now. You might not like it. Then look for another world. Maybe an arena?

And of course you are only trolling around as so often. You don't really care what happens on Aetheria anymore. Or at least that is the impression I get.

[Bargeld]

Now to the future, if we look upon this server as a business, one must ask one self "how do we get more ppl here and keep them here?"

Rant wherever and whenever we see the opportunity?

Know what's worse than uncontrolled PvP? Uncontrolled ranting.

[Amoenotep]

red=dead started the day ns4 powered up. once we figured out that the server breaks meant we were isolated enough to do our own thing..that server became ours. many a time i remember whole server parties on the look out and hunting that one player from the other server that managed to find his way to our domain. we knew he was another faction because the server auto disliked him on transition....many was the day that i ran around the LA server distracting hunting parties while my allies killed lowbies in gobo's too

[Lokey]

PvP is just part of it, we like to do other things too. Also balancing crap for PvP or having to think of all the permutations of throwing new PvP-applicable stuff in is agony.

Dev for the next 2 months or so is pretty much spoken for (new area group, some other things), so now's the time to think about things that should be done. And probably chop out the last page and a half of posts

[Ryddwillow]

Politics aside and the hate for me or greatness for me aside, focus on why ppl come here? Read many a post like I did on this server and ppl flock here because of the PVP here. Do a poll and if there was no PVP you would have like 5 ppl here. Last comment I recall on this server is a "Gods" toon said he came here for the PVP and many others. I am not stating like DM CHASE we need to go back to using sticks to defeat an opponent ( he made the comment like 4 years ago) but we need to digress this threshold and try to fix it. Monks stunning fists dc is retarded and needs to be scaled back, if it cannot be physically scaled back then maybe raise the other dc's of other toons that are monk killers. I am not a developer but when you build an awesome toon and some half breed monk stuns you to death, seems to be redundant. SD are dealt with since this server became active.

Red = Dead is gone unless your guild or faction states it. Everyone knows each other sooo when the friendship ends and the hatred begins then maybe a new start. Dual logging I can see to transfer only but dual to triple logging, WHY? You allow it so it happens and it is unfair to low players or new players when defending their turf against a same level but some have a lvl 40 waiting to save their pride. I am not blaming anyone but you must see this as a disadvantage to low lvl players and new players. I see it and hear it but policing this is up to you?

I understand it takes time to make decisions and to redevelop a new theme, but this server and game is old and to get new players and keep the ones you have is wrenching to one's conscience in order to make the right decision to please most of the ppl here. If a poll were taken today it would be increase pvp.

The red is dead which you like to call "real" pvp started with the okies and DD imo and when beta disappeared (whith the announced wipe) and NS4 proper appeared. CLAD was created to counter it a bit or at least help the new and low lvl chars slaughtered on the altar of killing sprees. It was when I left NS4 to look for greener pastures. Not that I despise pvp but just to kill because you can, is beyond anything I like. It rather makes players leave the server.

Thus to make it short: if we had the server you would like to have in NS4, it wouldn't exist anymore. 2 or 3 players would dominate over the others and the rest would just go away. Leaving a dead server behind. Why? Because uncontrolled pvp is far worse than the controlled environment we have now. You might not like it. Then look for another world. Maybe an arena?

I must admit the OKIES were great as a guild, then came the sexy Freaks, the Gimps, Ironclad, and then the Slaves, SOS, then DD was along there in the time line. YOU learned your faction and your friends in the help defend your faction and when someone new came along you treated them as a new brother or sister. We had no relics but we defended until death of our faction. When a server wide shout came about we ran, now it is "I'm leveling can anyone else help you". Guilds are great but it takes individuals to make this message sink in. Friends are great but knowing everyone on this server and being friends with them is bad for the team and the server because I hear " He or She is my friend and I cant defend or attack." Dual logging and triple logging doesn't help either, I can triple log, dual log, but i chose my toon 1 toon.

Clad was a rescue guild, period. A dm came in NC and then gave the name to one of the guilds and dm Mettis (dm Mettis was a great Dm always listened to you and then made judgements) gave hope to TC.

Bioware gave us the tools to use, NS4 sharpened the tools in which we use, We, as players use those tools. We build, create, destroy, kill or heal in which we were given. Change is always foremost thing.







Signed,
Wilma

[Ryddwillow]

Yep, by strict RAW reading of "V - Thou shalt not relog any character to exact revenge on a lost PvP fight, whether higher or lower in level than your original character." you are instantly venge logging if you use dual logged characters both in pvp.

It sounds great in theory, i mean it is something I want to believe but, i have seen many a evidence of the above statement to be False, Now you can say hey Wilma why do you say such a thing? Hmmm, you must have something to back it up right? Let us say that all DM's and Developers and everyone else is a HUMAN being and able and capable of lying. I have been thru a developer lying and helping his "Friend" while abusing and not complying the to rules of NS4. Been thru crooked DM's -- Got insta pked in a store for nothing besdies talking to a person, I have been thru alot, but the old saying if you are gonna talk the talk, walk the walk.

All are subjected to fleecing while their flesh is warm for the truth might escape us if but 1 person should become cold.

Willow