Book Exchanger

[mining]

Save totals are no longer saved to character sheet (base is calculated on login). There's fort/reflex/will save bonus fields, I don't remember where they're used (used to just be able to change them and it'd work, but don't think that's the case anymore).

+skin? Subtle nerf to CoT

[Dazrield]

Playing other NWN servers and MMO's it is pretty apparant that people love Quests. A +1 save (one time only) for each save is a great reason to quest. It should be alot more challenging then our faction jobs. Perhaps make each quest available at 20,30 then 40 for each +1 save quest.

That's a cool idea.. would add some more building skill stuff if you got to pick what your +1 save was good for(stun, mind affecting, death, paralysis, poison, fear, etc...). Some might end up stacking(like poison and death vs. an assassin but unsure how that works). And maybe keep to the idea that every build is different rather than half the server having all the same save bonus.

[Frendel]

I think that a +4 book slot machine type mob would be fun. Perhaps something to this effect: you give the mob a +2 book, you tell it to roll your chances, if you win (say a 1/25 chance) you get your +2 tome changed to a +4 tome. If you lose, you lose your +2 tome. Risky enough for DMs to approve? Easy enough for Devs to code? Perhaps also making it to where you could feed in more than 1 +2 book to up your chances (2/25 for 2 books, 3/25 for 3 books, etc.) I think that it would have to be stat for stat though. No feeding in all of your +2 Cha books in hopes of getting a +4 Dex or something.

I like the idea of quests but adding more to saves will push the fun of trying to make a non-bigby cheese wiz out the door. It's hard enough to make a wizard that's not focused up in Conj/Evoc. How about a quest that makes Enchantment or Illusion something that you won't be made fun of for taking?

[Monkey]

I don't like any idea that encourages people to farm for books with high level toons in low level areas. Too much of that goes on and it's bad for the server, IMO. People should be challenging themselves, playing in parties, and should be rewarded most for killing tough bosses. Instead we get high level toons farming the easier areas, messing up the fun for lowbies trying to level there.

Perhaps give the toughest bosses (G1?, Pelor?) a 1/2 chance of dropping a +2 and a 1/10 chance of dropping a +4. Other bosses could have drop rates scaling down.

Nothing less than CR 40 should be able to drop a +4, but the drop rate on +4s should be greatly increased in the toughest areas.


The rate for finding +2s in chests and on Ogres and other low level mobs seems about right. I'd like to see some sort of check to see if there's a high level toon on the map though, and have the book turn into a broken one in these low level areas if a high level toon is present, as a way of discouraging book farming and power leveling.


The way I "farm" for books is to level a large number of toons in parties. I now have over 40 toons lvl 20 or higher, and have stored up 3 full sets of +2s and one +4. Those books are being saved for the rare PvP build that really needs them and won't be wasted on my typical party toon that does fine without using books.

[VagaStorm]

I don't like any idea that encourages people to farm for books with high level toons in low level areas. Too much of that goes on and it's bad for the server, IMO. People should be challenging themselves, playing in parties, and should be rewarded most for killing tough bosses. Instead we get high level toons farming the easier areas, messing up the fun for lowbies trying to level there.

Perhaps give the toughest bosses (G1?, Pelor?) a 1/2 chance of dropping a +2 and a 1/10 chance of dropping a +4. Other bosses could have drop rates scaling down.

Nothing less than CR 40 should be able to drop a +4, but the drop rate on +4s should be greatly increased in the toughest areas.


The rate for finding +2s in chests and on Ogres and other low level mobs seems about right. I'd like to see some sort of check to see if there's a high level toon on the map though, and have the book turn into a broken one in these low level areas if a high level toon is present, as a way of discouraging book farming and power leveling.


The way I "farm" for books is to level a large number of toons in parties. I now have over 40 toons lvl 20 or higher, and have stored up 3 full sets of +2s and one +4. Those books are being saved for the rare PvP build that really needs them and won't be wasted on my typical party toon that does fine without using books.

I think it would be really cool if the drop rate on books where based on how frequent the area had been visited lately... That would keep farmers of the mountain, and encourage exploration. Right now, book farming is about getting lots of kills fast..

[Monkey]

I think it would be really cool if the drop rate on books where based on how frequent the area had been visited lately... That would keep farmers of the mountain, and encourage exploration. Right now, book farming is about getting lots of kills fast..

Agreed. It's probably not practical to code in something automatic, but I imagine the developers could bump up the drop rates in seldom visited areas and decrease the rates in overplayed areas now and then.

[Daral0085]

I think it would be really cool if the drop rate on books where based on how frequent the area had been visited lately... That would keep farmers of the mountain, and encourage exploration. Right now, book farming is about getting lots of kills fast..

Agreed. It's probably not practical to code in something automatic, but I imagine the developers could bump up the drop rates in seldom visited areas and decrease the rates in overplayed areas now and then.

The problem is that nobody would ever know. I mean, Mining talks all the time about how he's buffed the CR in water plane, dropped the difficulty, etc, but I've still not been back there because most people on this server have long memories and it takes a while to undo a lot of those patterns. Fool me once shame on you, right? I'm not going to return to crappy zones very much (if ever), which means that you will "learn" about changes to those zones proportionately slower.

Changing things randomly would be kinda crazy, because the drop rates are already so unpredictable that they could bump the drop rate and nobody would know. It really takes a lot of runs to "figure out" what the drop rate is and by the time you've "figured it out" they would change it again, because you have to play an area a lot to learn the drop rate, which by definition means that it has become a popular zone. Of course, if you chose the "wrong zone" that hasn't gotten buffed, then you get low drops *and* have to deal with the harder mobs, etc that made it unpopular in the first place.

I suppose you could announce the changes, but what kind of dev announces the changes they make?

[Bargeld]

There is no such thing as 'book farming'. It's 'book searching' or 'book hoping'. There should not be any mob, boss or otherwise, that provides a guaranteed chance of success with 'farming'. It will always favor certain builds and factions, and absolutely should not be implemented.

Also, why only have drops on cr40 mobs? This just guarantees that you will never be able to find a +4 book on your own and will need to roll for every one that IS found, ultimately reducing your chances of actually owning one. My opinion is that the book drop rates, areas, etc. are just fine how they are. Monkey... the more toons you have, the books you will THINK you need. If you have 50 toons at level ranges of 1-30, then OF COURSE you think you need a bunch of books. If you need a book for a specific build, wait till you get the book to make it. I have 27 lvl 40 toons. I also have a lvl 32 and 39. I would guess that, combined, I've used maybe 20 +2 books and 4 or 6 +4 books. This has taken roughly 3 years to accomplish. You may have the toon count, but it takes time to earn the books and the levels.

As far as 'high levels farming in lowbie areas'... deal with it. Not everyone wants to play the same as you.

[MasterYoda]

There is no such thing as 'book farming'. It's 'book searching' or 'book hoping'. There should not be any mob, boss or otherwise, that provides a guaranteed chance of success with 'farming'. It will always favor certain builds and factions, and absolutely should not be implemented.

Also, why only have drops on cr40 mobs? This just guarantees that you will never be able to find a +4 book on your own and will need to roll for every one that IS found, ultimately reducing your chances of actually owning one. My opinion is that the book drop rates, areas, etc. are just fine how they are. Monkey... the more toons you have, the books you will THINK you need. If you have 50 toons at level ranges of 1-30, then OF COURSE you think you need a bunch of books. If you need a book for a specific build, wait till you get the book to make it. I have 27 lvl 40 toons. I also have a lvl 32 and 39. I would guess that, combined, I've used maybe 20 +2 books and 4 or 6 +4 books. This has taken roughly 3 years to accomplish. You may have the toon count, but it takes time to earn the books and the levels.

As far as 'high levels farming in lowbie areas'... deal with it. Not everyone wants to play the same as you.

quoted for truth esp the last sentence.

[Monkey]

I must have really stated things poorly. It seems as though just about everything I said was misinterpreted or misunderstood.

There should not be any mob, boss or otherwise, that provides a guaranteed chance of success with 'farming'. It will always favor certain builds and factions, and absolutely should not be implemented.

Of course. Hardly any drops should be guaranteed (outside of the dragon parts for DE or other items needed to access specific areas or complete jobs). I'm advocating higher probabilities on book drops for more difficult mobs, not guaranteed book drops.

Also, why only have drops on cr40 mobs? This just guarantees that you will never be able to find a +4 book on your own and will need to roll for every one that IS found, ultimately reducing your chances of actually owning one.

Quite a few CR 40 mobs and bosses can be soloed with good play and with good builds. I know of at least one player who farms certain CR 25ish areas with wailers endlessly, however, eventually accumulating many +4 books. This shouldn't be possible, IMO.

My opinion is that the book drop rates, areas, etc. are just fine how they are.

I agree that the overall rates are fine and it would be a mistake to increase or decrease them significantly. However, the developers can encourage or discourage different types of behavior with the way they set the drop rates. I think it makes the server more fun, stimulating and challenging for most players if good play and cooperation is rewarded, rather than mind-numbing solo-grinding and farming easy areas with 40s.

Monkey... the more toons you have, the books you will THINK you need. If you have 50 toons at level ranges of 1-30, then OF COURSE you think you need a bunch of books.

No. The vast majority of my toons are built not needing any books. They are designed to work well in parties by playing one or more roles well (cleric, bard, tank, hitter, caster, searcher/opener, etc.). When I do use books it's usually because a build concept I have requires the uses of books, and not simply to squeeze out another point of AC/AB or to boost saves. Those builds are very rare though.

As far as 'high levels farming in lowbie areas'... deal with it. Not everyone wants to play the same as you.

Of course, we all have to "deal with it." Of course different people enjoy playing in different ways. This is the Ideas and Suggestions board, though, and I was sharing some ideas and making some suggestions. You're welcome to disagree with them, but please don't misrepresent them.

[Monkey]

I suppose you could announce the changes, but what kind of dev announces the changes they make?

Mining has, at least.

Announcing that drop rates have been increased in certain areas would almost certainly get people to go there more. I've been to Water Plane several times in parties since the changes were made.

[Rufio]

Is farming low level ares with high level characters much of a problem? I hear people talking about farming for books, but I don't actually see it done much because of how boring and time consuming it is. I've tried it before. Got 1 +2 book over the course of a couple of days of clearing out a dungeon off the beaten path and generally just felt like I could be doing something more fun or productive with my time.

[Ryddwillow]

I think it would be really cool if the drop rate on books where based on how frequent the area had been visited lately... That would keep farmers of the mountain, and encourage exploration. Right now, book farming is about getting lots of kills fast..

Really? A plus 1 ab or plus 1 to strength, etc..... is gonna make you that much better? Spend days to weeks to get books for that. Should be implemented in all planes and areas so you losers do not take time away from lower levels that are trying to level. This has been going on for years, learn to build without and when you do find a book while lvling up act surprised.

Next you will want a insta lvl to 40. A joke, whine to someone who cares.

[Monkey]

Is farming low level ares with high level characters much of a problem?

Not a big problem, but...

It's annoying to be in a good leveling party on a run somewhere that gets interrupted because some high level toon has cleared a good low level map.

Also, it would be more fun for all if these players were leveling with us instead of book farming.

Just basic human psychology: Helping newbies or working together in parties tends to modify people's behavior for the better. Solo grinding activities tend to make people more selfish. Competition sometimes brings out the worst in some people as they get defensive about their failures or demonize their rivals.

It's good for the community if the server channels people into cooperative efforts. There's plenty of room for solo play and direct competition, and I'm not saying it's inherently bad to compete or go solo, but working together as a community should be encouraged more, IMO.

[MasterYoda]

Is farming low level ares with high level characters much of a problem?

Not a big problem, but...

It's annoying to be in a good leveling party on a run somewhere that gets interrupted because some high level toon has cleared a good low level map.

Also, it would be more fun for all if these players were leveling with us instead of book farming.

Just basic human psychology: Helping newbies or working together in parties tends to modify people's behavior for the better. Solo grinding activities tend to make people more selfish. Competition sometimes brings out the worst in some people as they get defensive about their failures or demonize their rivals.

It's good for the community if the server channels people into cooperative efforts. There's plenty of room for solo play and direct competition, and I'm not saying it's inherently bad to compete or go solo, but working together as a community should be encouraged more, IMO.

Im going to weight in here. This server is played with everything in mind. Relics , Factions, PVP. Upon entering the world you have to pick a faction which in turns makes the other 66% of teh server Hate you.

Yes being Cooperative is one thing that keeps new players here. But boring pve grinding servers is also why they leave. If someone is going to rage then quit cause they got pked on teh mountain then by al means do it then leave and go to another server. Its your game play how you want.

But in ANY mmo you haveto realize that ther world is built to a specific science. That world is going to function how it needs to for it to work. unfortunatly here in NS you HAVE to have good guys and bad guys. or it turns uinto everyone fmo one faction sharing the relics and holding hands. Thats why prestige classes are spcific to factions. It forces you to choose.

ALSO there are PLENTY of places to level other than oger mountain. Just stop being lazy and go explore.