Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

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cRaZy8or5e
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by cRaZy8or5e »

None of my toons are dependent on ii. You get used to playing without it. The concealment is a great bonus, but as frog said, blind fight limits its effectiveness to a degree. You're right, it would make some of the lower level areas more difficult, but again, there isn't a single one that you need to have ii to be able to wage pvm combat effectively.
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Amoenotep
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Amoenotep »

because with differing spells and buffs your tactics and play styles change. if you super buff a lowbie and run him up the mtn he will take things head on without worry, because he knows he has an advantage. same with ii, the ppl that don't use it try very hard not to put themselves in situations were they get swarmed and killed.

it reminds me of the old invis, darkness, igms tactics before the first AI tweaks to investigate darkness.
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Celorn »

Hmm....

for my 2 cents, i say; ii is fine as-is, lets use the dev time on ns4 for more important things.
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cRaZy8or5e
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by cRaZy8or5e »

Good point Cel :). Would be creating more work for devs.
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Nyeleni
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Nyeleni »

Hey, we have to keep them occupied. Good gods if they would start thinking for themselves. Fancy that ;).
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by disastro »

cRaZy8or5e wrote:None of my toons are dependent on ii. You get used to playing without it. The concealment is a great bonus, but as frog said, blind fight limits its effectiveness to a degree. You're right, it would make some of the lower level areas more difficult, but again, there isn't a single one that you need to have ii to be able to wage pvm combat effectively.
i dont mean to say anyone is dependent on ii. sure you can play without it, but as tep pointed out it's a much different and harder game, which is exactly my point ;)

not saying anything either for or against, just illustrating a natural consequence of such a change (which may be fine if your intent is to make the game a lot harder in many cases).

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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Amoenotep »

i never said it was harder..i just said that you use different tactics.

if you know you have concealment bonus against multiple attackers you will tend to take them in small groups.

if you know you don't have that option you will limit your mob encounters so that the extra attackers don't recieve that extra bonus for beating you down.

2 different tactics but difficulties are based on how you make it.
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by LinuxPup »

Improved Invisibility is pretty uber really, but its one of the easiest things to dispel too... no check with greater spell breach or mords, no matter how many caster levels.
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Amoenotep »

thats because its on the "auto strip" list for breeches and mords...hehe, i love those lists ;)
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Nyeleni »

LinuxPup wrote:Improved Invisibility is pretty uber really, but its one of the easiest things to dispel too... no check with greater spell breach or mords, no matter how many caster levels.
Err, ii was never a problem for casters, just get true seeing or see invis. and they don't even have to strip it. Or even better invis. purge. But only rangers, and good thing they do, get that but casters.

I have been checking the scripter board and I got this
  • #include "x2_inc_spellhook"
    void main()
    {
    // Spell Hook.
    if(!X2PreSpellCastCode()) {return;}
    // Declare parameters.
    object oTarget = GetSpellTargetObject();
    int iLevel = GetCasterLevel(OBJECT_SELF);
    float iDuration = TurnsToSeconds(iLevel);
    int iConceal = 30;
    if(GetHasFeat(FEAT_EPIC_SPELL_FOCUS_ILLUSION) == TRUE) {iConceal = 50;}
    // Declare effects.
    effect eImpact = EffectVisualEffect(VFX_IMP_HEAD_MIND);
    effect eInvis = EffectInvisibility(INVISIBILITY_TYPE_NORMAL);
    effect eVis = EffectVisualEffect(VFX_DUR_INVISIBILITY);
    effect eDur = EffectVisualEffect(VFX_DUR_CESSATE_POSITIVE);
    effect eCover = EffectConcealment(iConceal);
    effect eLink = EffectLinkEffects(eDur, eCover);
    eLink = EffectLinkEffects(eLink, eVis);
    // Signal event.
    SignalEvent(oTarget, EventSpellCastAt(OBJECT_SELF, SPELL_IMPROVED_INVISIBILITY, FALSE));
    // Extend.
    if(GetMetaMagicFeat() == METAMAGIC_EXTEND) {iDuration *= 2;}
    // Apply effects.
    ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_INSTANT, eImpact, oTarget);
    ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_TEMPORARY, eLink, oTarget, iDuration);
    ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_TEMPORARY, eInvis, oTarget, iDuration);
    }
The first two foci are missing though, but I think they are easy to implement now that I see how it is done.
Other than the time problem, I still didn't hear anything against the modification, but then again, not much for it either heh.
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disastro
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by disastro »

i thought true seeing only let you see invisible critters, but did nothing to address the concealment granted by ii?
ii concealement and invis are 2 separate effects.

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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Nyeleni »

disastro wrote:i thought true seeing only let you see invisible critters, but did nothing to address the concealment granted by ii?
ii concealement and invis are 2 separate effects.
Sure but casters don't have to hit concealed stuff, they just cast nasty words at it ;).
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Korr »

ii is in fact weaker than it is in PnP game... ii is supposed to keep you invisible, which is why you get a 50% concealment (cant be seen).

I would say keep ii how it is, just change how other things act with it.

Blind-Fight lets you roll twice for concealment, no change necessary I would think.

TrueSeeing is supposed to negate concealment from ii in PnP, see invisibility is not specifically mentioned to do so, but one would assume. TS also should negate concealment from ghostlyvisage, ethereal visage, and displacement.

I think the game would run better if TS gave see invis, ultravision, see ethereal, negated concealment from spells (not things like self-concealment and racial concealment). I think TS should also not give a spot bonus, nowhere in the desciption ever in True Seeing does it say, or elude to granting the user ability to spot things better. In fact in PHB the spell specifically says "True Seeing does not help the caster spot a hidden door" which would assume goes the same for a character. It reveals polymorhped creatures, invisible, ethereal, and any disguises.
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by ashsagoon »

Korr wrote:nowhere in the desciption ever in True Seeing does it say, or elude to granting the user ability to spot things better
NS4 Wiki wrote:True Seeing
Description: The creature gains effects as if from See Invisibility and a bonus to Spot skill depending on spell focus.
NWN Wiki wrote:True Seeing
Description: The target creature can see through Sanctuary and Invisibility effects, and automatically spots hiding opponents.
o.O
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Re: Humble suggestion about Improved Invisibility

Post by Fatzo »

o.O indeed !

oh noes ! a nerf thread has been bumped ! NOOOOO leave it alone its fine ! :wink:

well actually in all honesty , it really is.
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