Return of the "I Win Button"

[LinuxPup]

Pale Masters have been, and still are more powerful than RDDs... even after nerfing.

[Nefarious]

So now they are easier than ever to take down. I would like to see some penalties put on the RDD. The RDD should have 50% vulnrability to cold and 25% vulnrability to electricity or even acid. It makes sense, and fits their class but do you see that happening? NO!!!

How many RDD's do you actually see running around on server? I have one and I dont see many more. PM is still more powerful then RDD will ever be, Good Lordy.

[mgrjebbo]

i thought about taking advantage of the updated rdd breath damage, since it is unlimited use and all. isnt it like up to 30d10 or something if you go 30 levels of rdd?

[de_slider]

And if you do not consider a 50% vulnerability to a damage type and another 25% vulnerability to another nerfing then you live in a sad sheltered world. That is total nerfing.

I would agree with you on this point if every pc had Divine and Fire damage to inflick. But they don't. I would further agree with you if every mob had Divine and Fire damage to inflick, they too don't.

If you removed Immunity to crits then every creature and pc has the oporinity to crit. There lays the difference between a nerf and non nerf.
By your theory a fighter won't use a Guardian Greaves because it is "nerfed" by having Divine Vulnerability.

My fighter does not have fire or divine damage, yet when a PM got pk'd by her some time back the whining about how PM's where nerf went on. Even when that PM did not get pk'd by any of the so called nerfs.

A nerf is when the change made to your disadvantage and you can be effect by everything on the server, balance is when a change is made and only a couple of things can use those changes to the pc's advantage/disadvantage.

Here's a suggestion to dev. Take away these current "nerfs" on PM's Them being forced evil, vulnerable to diviven and fire damage and then take away their immunities instead. Like Gornickthy said that was what all the whining about PM's was about to begin with. I personally don't care if a PM has either vulnerability, I just enjoy going against them for the challenge. Win, lose or draw. (My fighter usually loses)

fyi. I've had a PM for a very long time. It's not a very good build but it is still fun. So I do know how the balancing effected it.

[-BannyD-]

i thought about taking advantage of the updated rdd breath damage, since it is unlimited use and all. isnt it like up to 30d10 or something if you go 30 levels of rdd?

where is it unlimited? 1/day

[LinuxPup]

PM immunities are hardcoded.

Also, it should be noted that divine might bypass both vulnerabilities and immunities to divine damage.

[Alkapwn]

i thought about taking advantage of the updated rdd breath damage, since it is unlimited use and all. isnt it like up to 30d10 or something if you go 30 levels of rdd?

where is it unlimited? 1/day

That would be awesome~! Unlimted uses or even say 5/day would make it an almost useful ability. PM's Beware!!! heehee

[Gornickthy]

PM immunities are hardcoded.

Well at least for small favors.

[mgrjebbo]

will have to re-read the post by metis and the wikki but i thought it was changed to d10 per level and unlimited uses... aswell as a dc raise for the save.

could be confusing it with something else though.

[cRaZy8or5e]

*whines* Leave the PM's evil. Then we don't have to defend cuz our epic defenders smite 'em.

Seriously it was the craziest thing I ever saw, a party of 5 MD PM bards and PM tanks, dead in 30 seconds cuz of 8 epic defenders. Ainarato and Kermit waved their weapons ineffectually to try and scare-no that's too strong a word- make em nervous, but really we just sat and watched.

The one nice thing about fighter's having three kd's was that we were sometimes able to kill the tank PM's *ahem* achilles *ahem* before he could drink a pot lol.

As it is the new vulnerabilities made it easier to kill them with wiz/sorces which were the only classes besides smiters that I know of that could deal damage to em fast enough to kill em.

edit: Oh yeah and harming lol though harms were always effective

[mgrjebbo]

maybe the problem isnt with the pm changes but with the epic defenders?

i have a lvl 32 pure pali smiter and against a 35+pm he has very little chance... depending on which one he is fightining that is....

course i havent played him since pure class bonu's went live

maybe the epic defenders are just to tough?

[P. Fricebottle]

Alright I can tell this is getting off-topic. My original idea was to fix an obvious problem in my eyes. The Pure Fighter Token is an I Win Button in the sense there is little to none saving to it, the chances of saving are equivalent to that of saving a Bigsby's Crushing Hand pre-modification.

Balance is excellent on the server, right now, but if we move past this it'll cause that much more of a disruption when it comes time to go back and revise this it'll be under a lot of stuff that will be disturbed in the process. Thats my opinion, this may never be revised. Thats up the devs, I just now that I don't feel comfortable with something so uber on any side of the Class Table.

[frogofpeace]

You guys know this game much better than me, but I don't really agree with the fighter KD being an 'I win', at least not in all cases, especially with the new timing. I've been on both ends of the ability, I would swear I've seen plenty of people find ways around it (my bard makes the save maybe 1/3 of the time, I'd guess; SD's just have to be patient, the fighters gonna give up eventually ). It's usually a 'put your opponent in bad trouble' button, but you know, fighters are supposed to be good at smacking you around. If you get close enough that they can get their hands on you, and you're not also a tank, well, that's just not very smart. THe KD has been an awesome way to press that point home, and even an awesome cleric like Gary ought to pay the price if they get close enough for a pure fighter to catch em. It's a 'I win' button if you're not prepared for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

PMs, meh - pain in the neck class, you ask me. Kill em all. Again. Praise Tyr!

[LinuxPup]

I've often been able to trick pure fighters by running at them, then at the last minute running out of the radius and letting them waste a rumble... The KD ability is hard to use in open areas. I used to make the save vs. KD about 1 out of 2 or 3 times before any of the fixes to it, so it should be a bit easier to save now... that was with a discipline of about 95 and a pure level 40 curse song.. so effectively 105 discipline. I was dex-based.

Anyway, the change has been made to the token less than a week ago... we'll see how things pan out... its definitely less powerful now.

[burrahobbit]

I take some responsibility for the pure fighter explosion (proudly). We in NC started using pure fighters to combat healing PM's ( PM's on their back can't suck down heal pots). With the changes to the warlord rumble i dont see how anyone can ever say its a"I win" button. I have yet to see many pure fighters win 1 on 1 pvp vs someone who knows what they are doing. If you take away all KD ability from them you will see an explosion of monks and there will be no way to stop a well built pure monk with spell resistance. (at least thats what i would do hehehe)
As always there a ton of issues i havent thought of but i am of the opinion that as of right now, you would be crazy to try to take a pure fighter into a 1 on 1 battle against a well built char, *boasts* and i have one of the best on the server so i would know. =)

Kermit FoN
Rpg