Assassin Love

[Alkapwn]

Don't forget hiding by the SL cradle for the raider to steal a relic being completly dispelled of all buffs...ie no FoM.

like i said it all good if its 1v1 in that particular situation. Generally its not 1v1 even its another sl defender it negates the ability .Assassin is glorious on paper but just doesnt work in practice. Like I said its just my opinion and expierence. We could get rid of assassins all together it wouldnt matter to me one way or another. It would be nice to get a more versatile prestige class is all i'm saying

[Bargeld]

I have one. I never needed to rebuild it or try turning it into something else.

How often do you see factional PRC's in other faction mixed builds? How often on the battlefield? ... Now think how often you see assassins in a mixed build or on the battlefield.

[hond]

Personaly, is not about FoM or not...is just about all the requisit to make ur death attack work that just ridiculous...
1- you need initiative ( you need 2 or 3 feats )
2- you need lvl 27+ of assassin class, if you want DC toon
3- you need high INT for same reason (INT mod included in DC formula)
4- you need a still target (not casting or fighting)
and finaly you need a target with lame fort save....
all that for the bioware death attack effect...
if you want to use the poison special ability you have to add all the process of the poison (limited time of use, can't poison your weapon if you can't rest, only 1 weapon, etc...)
you will run with a toon DC54 average....
Make a stunner...even nerfed it will easier to stun an oponant, than using an assassin...
That class is just too horible....
some exemple:
- your a WM...just spam whirlind attack will make you immune to both assassins attack
- you are a caster...cast some lvl0 spells if you see the door opened of menzo temple
- just equip a ranged weapon and shoot a door will immune you...
and finaly , it's a unique prestige class of SL...far away the lamest prestige class...
not good for combo class (same as rogue but no epic dodge) and not good on DC...

PD: any middle-good spoter will make your death attacks totaly useless...

[weasel423]

Don't forget hiding by the SL cradle for the raider to steal a relic being completly dispelled of all buffs...ie no FoM.

This would be nice if grabbing a relic de-shifted a druid, shifter, rdd etc

[mining]

1- you need initiative ( you need 2 or 3 feats )

- you are a caster...cast some lvl0 spells if you see the door opened of menzo temple

First is false, you just need to attack them while they're not in combat mode - if they see you, they're in combat mode.

Second is also false, they need to be in combat.

Other than that, seems to be correct.

[Bargeld]

This can get real tricky and specific for a lot of scenarios if you want to get into it that much. I know quite a few tricks that I'd rather not make public. The enemies' lack of knowledge about how this work is one of the reasons why many of us can be successful.

#1 I don't think minig's answer applied. Hond was talking about flat initiative rolls to start the round and initiative/imp init feats, which do matter in a lot of encounters. You can para a target while their music is playing. But you need to beat their initiative roll and they need to be eligible for para attack under some other conditions too.

#2 Hond is correct. I hate to give this stupid 'trick' away, but if you stand in the middle of a cleared cradle 1v1 vs Sin and you attack a door or a remains, then you can't be para'd or vial'ed. Using an amulet makes you ineligible. Drinking a pot, buffing, using journal. I even think emoting would prevent it, by falling on the ground (ok maybe not, idk). The point is that the assassin and it's abilities are all about 2 types of attacks that require absolute stealth and a ton of other rules. The most common sin out there only self buffs to 113 spot and low 120s hide. And that's with their new token and a OwtL scroll. They are very difficult to make usable outside of these 2 attacks, but that's half the fun. The challenge of this class and the payoff for success makes it all the sweeter. I'd rather have some cool new abilities though.

[Eldaquen]

Was just looking at requirments to take Assassin class as a level and according to wiki the class only requires 8 hide/move silent and evil alignment. So wondering with all the talk about stunning fist being overpowered why I haven't seen or come across a stunning fist assassin?

Seems once an opponent is stunned all the issues with using death attack go away other than FoM.

[Nocturne]

Was just looking at requirments to take Assassin class as a level and according to wiki the class only requires 8 hide/move silent and evil alignment. So wondering with all the talk about stunning fist being overpowered why I haven't seen or come across a stunning fist assassin?

You have actually

[hond]

hond wrote:
1- you need initiative ( you need 2 or 3 feats )

- you are a caster...cast some lvl0 spells if you see the door opened of menzo temple



First is false, you just need to attack them while they're not in combat mode - if they see you, they're in combat mode.

if you don't have initiative, you will make normal sneaks attacks but no save vs paralysis or death....

to elda...you never saw a Sin stunner for a single reason...you can't access to IMP stun fist whitout the 7 regular epics feats...which mean a toon with 7 imp stun fist, but no DC (swap INT for WIS), bad saves, bad spot, bad initiative...
beter go rogue/ fighter whitout doubts...

[Rufio]

Now think how often you see assassins in a mixed build.

Take less than 25 assassin levels and then you are just a bad rogue. This is why assassins suck.

[weasel423]

Now think how often you see assassins in a mixed build.

Take less than 25 assassin levels and then you are just a bad rogue. This is why assassins suck.

QFT

PM dip 10 and you are all good
RDD dip 10 and you are all good
not sure about others as I have not made them, but it seems the only other unique prc where a slight dip may not be helpful is Shifter

[Daral0085]

CoT dip can potentially be very strong. 5, 6, 8 or 10 CoT levels gives you full BAB, major saves boost, but a fairly inconsequential wrath. IMO it fits very nicely in a few builds, as it's basically like fighter levels except with much more saves and some minor pre-requisites.

Shifter dipping only makes sense if you are targeting a specific wildshape (which most shifter builds do). Usually we aim for epic wildshapes, but it is feasible to make a greater wildshape build. It's not common, but it happens.

Other than that, from what I've seen dipping in DwD is also usually not a strong choice. DwD is only really good for the DR buffs, principally at levels 10, 20 and 30. Taking DwD to some other threshold would not make as much sense, IMO. Even then, taking 10 DwD isn't very cost-effective because it consumes 10 levels + your PrC and only gives you a bit of DR and 10% DI. As a tank, you'd really want 20-30 levels, and as a non-tank you wouldn't particularly want DwD compared to other classes like SD, BG, pally, ranger, monk, etc.

I agree with your assessments of RDD and PM, both are fantastic dip classes (specifically at level 10).

[Bargeld]

5 or 7 levels of CoT is the only way to get a decent DC 48 AQ3 imploder, due to Great Wisdom as a class feat.

[Celorn]

I know this is kind of getting side-tracked, but I kinda disagree with the DD dipping comment.

5 DD (or 6 for 3/- DR) is definitely worthwhile on some builds! Only a few DD levels gives you a +4 ac bump when holding position that doesn't drop AB like expertise and doesn't cost a feat, but also makes you UNFLANKABLE, which is much better than uncanny dodge. DD has full bab, disc & spot, and you get a 10% bonus DR at 10th, at 20th DD another 10% DR, so to compare; 5,6,10,14,18,20,22 or 30 are all decent amounts of DD to use (some mainly for the next bump in DR+extra feat).

The down side is here is DD is pretty much defensive, no extra damage, no extra ab except considering it's full pre-20.

----==]--

As for Assassins, from a general building perspective (& not considering death attack killing), I can see a lot of nice combos where 5,9/10,15,20 or of course 30 A-lvls would work, thanks to the ns4 modifications.

6 gives you a nice cat's grace without using expendables or having a caster class
9 gives you ii without burning expendables
10 permanent UV is amazing! Especially if you're a Drow... many options here
15 for FoM, but again kind of redundant with UMD + cheap arcane craftables
20 gives you the nice ethereal and casted boost to your spot/listen (likely boostable with div focus)
30 of course this makes you rely greatly on getting that 1 attack from stealth since toe-2-toe your discipline will be lacking but you have 2 chances to vanish (WoW-rogue style).

Any amount gives you access to death attack damage, poison (kinda WoW-rogue style), uncanny dodge at 2nd, and UMD without needing bard or rogue, so right there you open up some new build options, also you have tumble, hide&ms, spot & listen. You're gonna need a TON of skill points anyhow, so your INT is likely going to be 14 or 16 even just to max out your 5 main skills, plus utility skills.

The worst part with watered down [censored]-builds is you don't get improved or even regular evasion (which I imagine is why SL realllly wants rangers).

[Alkapwn]

(which I imagine is why SL realllly wants rangers).

I just want it for a decent disc/spot cross class mostly. Be nice in MA too!