Divine Might

[Blystos Re]

A cleric/cot would be over powering because of the intesity of which CoT adds to any base class.... I was less trying to say to nerf the CoT than to ask why does paladin and CoT get an ability (the double divine) that a blackguard doesnt get, when in the end a CoT with a fighter base wouldnt even have access to divine might. This all has nothing to do with rangers in SL, someone else started the thread and I thought it would work out pretty well to have rangers... it seemed quite fitting. Taking 17 cleric and 23 blackguard for the good summon would only leave you with minimal 9th level spells that can get dispelled by the most meager of casters.. the blackguard doesnt add quite the kick a CoT would add (and no it shouldnt either since CoT is factional).

And the 7d6 sneak damage from a Cl17/BG23 just magically vaporizes?

7d6 is up to 42 additional damage per sneak, all the time, doesn't have to be activated, no feats burned to get there.
Don't complain. :p

[Korr]

Well then let me build a level 40 rogue with all the improved sneak attack feats and well go 1 on 1, lets see how much sneak attack damage I get across . . .

Sneak attack is far from "all the time"

[--Ashe--]

Sneak is far from all the time, indeed... just as Divine Wrath duration expires leaving the once damage powerhouse open to a sound brow beating with a nerf bat and dealing lackluster damage. Remember the CoTs constantly calling for a rest in DwP or HoD... I know you were there.

[disastro]

And the 7d6 sneak damage from a Cl17/BG23 just magically vaporizes?

7d6 is up to 42 additional damage per sneak, all the time, doesn't have to be activated, no feats burned to get there.
Don't complain. :p

well i have to take exception to this one particular statement. lets keep it real:

7d6 sneak:
averages to 24ish damage
doesnt get multiplied on crits
is subject to resistance/dr
only happens on a flank or in the goofy list of flatfooted situations
can happen at close range with ranged weapons

on the other hand ive seen cots dish out an easy 33 damage per hit, that gets multiplied on crits, that cuts through dr, at ANY range.

i will trade you bg sneaks for double length divine damage ANY TIME.

the right balance answer you should have pursued is "bgs can get an uber summon as compensation"

[mgrjebbo]

Why is this converstion even going on? If you dont reply the thread dies and goes away.,..... just an fyi.

[Nyeleni]

Why has jebbo always to step in, saying absolutely nothing about rubbish? Heed your own advice. And just be quiet .

I have to agree that CoT has an edge over BG. But as said: CoT is the only thing that keeps NC alive. All other stuff is mediocre at best and available in other factions. While BG isnt as crucial for other factions.

I will spell it for ya: you have the possibility of mages. Yes, that doesn't help BG much, but then again, getting the possibility of making a bard BG is huge. If you dont use it, its not the dev's fault.

[mgrjebbo]

Intresting turn of events.

[frogofpeace]

CoT divine might + divine wrath is nothing compared to Bigsbys + spam IGMS - you can run from a meleer. And I made a couple pretty good CoT builds that would flat lay out some damage, nominally had pretty good defense, but died real quick once wrath dropped or DM ran out (10ish rounds goes by quick), or even to some pretty basic counter builds.

Leave it the way it is - blackguard has other stuff.

[Amoenotep]

sneak attack damage is flagged as "extra" damage type....when did that start getting resisted except from regular DR feats?

which btw only take off a small amount when you start putting heavy numbers into sneak attack

[VagaStorm]

1. Divine damage is WAY better than sneak.
2. Cot dos not need a nerf. NC is aready über nerfed with the alignments and no arcane casters.
3. If you want cheesy divine damage, you don't go for cot. Pallys are the way to do it, and better yet combine it with wm.... What is that, you say you do an aditional 100 UNRESISTABLE damage on a crit with that scyte or 60 on evry other hit with a rapier. My dex based shortsword pally/wm pre wipe had a better damageoutput than my str based scyte wm....
4. if BGS where to get the extra divine damage they would have to loose their summon, which is the only reason ppl put lots of feats into bg today, so all you would end up with where favoring those who tok 5 lvls of bg for cheese.

just my a little more than .2 :p

[Blystos Re]

All the time meaning you don't have to hit a hotkey or rest to recharge it, and if you have a summon it shouldn't be that hard to flank your opponent.

I think 'Tep just did this to the sneak nay-sayers:



~fin~

[Korr]

it just struck me as strange that a class that doesnt even have the ability to turn undead get a double damage from a feat they wouldnt have access to alone. There are plenty of people out there who took 5 paladin for cheese too, and they get more cheese than the blackguard... takes 23 levels of BG to get that summon. I only started this thread because I was curois about it. BG does get other things which you all have neglectted to mention, like no need for spell focus to make their summons better... just more charisma. Or that the BG summon gets the same bonus to saves that a blackguard gets from his charisma.

Once again, it just struck me odd that a class gets an additional benefit from a feat that they have no access to alone.

[Blystos Re]

kinda like how Ranger has access to Epic Spell Focus in the wiki, but has no way of taking it since they don't get level 9 spells? Yeah, life is silly like that...

[disastro]

sneak attack damage is flagged as "extra" damage type....when did that start getting resisted except from regular DR feats?

which btw only take off a small amount when you start putting heavy numbers into sneak attack

sneak attacks are most definitely subject to damage immunity/dr from shields. 99% positive that dr feats /abilities/spells apply as well.

a concept put to the test during a "Blade" challenge... switched to the right shield and cut sneak attack damage in half.

granted, half of a bajillion sneak attack damage is still a lot.. but bgs dont get into that range of sneak insanity

[Bishop99]

just had a few questions about this:
all paladin's and cot's get double divine damage on divine might?
Or is it just pure paladins/cots?
and does that mean you only need 18 cha(+12 magical = 30) to get max damage?