Shifters Overpowered? Just Right? Glaring Weaknesses?

[cRaZy8or5e]

I havent played in months (and months) but I bet my kitty could eat almost any of your chars with same buffs!!!

Oh look nothing's changed. We haven't heard anything from you "in months (and months)" and the first thing that pops out of your mouth is "look at me! I'm da greatest!"

*pats Korr on the head*

Yes Korr dire tigers are powerful.

EDIT: wb

[Ryddwillow]

Shapeshifters have been weakened many a times. 72 AC kind of sukks compared to other builds. A dragon's ab stinks too considering they are a HUGE creature. A RDD should not have the abilty to change into a Red Dragon, but should get extra con and ab. A Druid and a Shifter should have the joy of making a TRUE Dragon since it is in there Epic character of TC. Both should get a fear aura based on wisdom/shifter lvls. You apply that much wisdom/shifter lvls. Fear can be easily defeated with the builds. AO is RDD = part red dragon. Add more hitpoints to a Dragon of the circle, little more AB and AC for those that want the best. A shifter is a difficult character to defend against, yes, but a good builder goes for a couple of classes, not like any other epic classes thru out the realms.

Sd's can be defeated, since a druid/shifter dragon got the BIG nerf stick on that it should be back in place (true seeing). the ac and ab of a true dragon isn't that great and move at normal pace and cannot cast spell in dragon form and can only chug potions. Some more benefit should be made. The Palemaster summons can defeat a pure dragon and a blackgaurd summons can come close without healing. A DvD absorbs the damage if built right, an Assassin has a no chance. My fighter cleric could defeat a pure dragon before the nerf 2X. I had no problems with a pure dragon, got the fighter cleric, cause my ac was to high for a solid attack and my HAMMER crushed. See I made toons for everyone that thought they were bad and beat them. I am me and didn't complain unless I saw you cheat, I believe to beat you down without the special cheats that are going on and yes you get tirde of me beating you down so you have to whine to a DM to say I am cheating. I do not cheat, I beat down on a one on one basis. I am not going to say any names here, but if you partied with me I guess you were cool, but if I didnt you are not well liked. The Sd thing is solved in NWN2. It can happen here but it needs a patch. Make a good Elf cleric, Assassin, ranger,mage built right.

Nerf's? you got Nerfed poor baby. I have been the most nerfed player here. I did make some nerfs, well lots, but not vs PVP. I believe in beating you down one vs one, one vs 2, one , 3, one vs 4, after 4 I am done but has been done. Can ask the DM's here, Linux and me were a draw. (he was a good builder), the rest died and didin't complain and you shouldn't either.

Rdd dragons should be given other bonuses, not a true dragon form since it should be only in TC since it is thier EPIC class. RDD, like I said should bet con bonuses,k and ab bonuses.


Here is a nickels worth, enjoy.

[mining]

Shapeshifters have been weakened many a times. 72 AC kind of sukks compared to other builds. A dragon's ab stinks too considering they are a HUGE creature. A RDD should not have the abilty to change into a Red Dragon, but should get extra con and ab. A Druid and a Shifter should have the joy of making a TRUE Dragon since it is in there Epic character of TC. Both should get a fear aura based on wisdom/shifter lvls. You apply that much wisdom/shifter lvls. Fear can be easily defeated with the builds. AO is RDD = part red dragon. Add more hitpoints to a Dragon of the circle, little more AB and AC for those that want the best. A shifter is a difficult character to defend against, yes, but a good builder goes for a couple of classes, not like any other epic classes thru out the realms.

Sd's can be defeated, since a druid/shifter dragon got the BIG nerf stick on that it should be back in place (true seeing). the ac and ab of a true dragon isn't that great and move at normal pace and cannot cast spell in dragon form and can only chug potions. Some more benefit should be made. The Palemaster summons can defeat a pure dragon and a blackgaurd summons can come close without healing. A DvD absorbs the damage if built right, an Assassin has a no chance. My fighter cleric could defeat a pure dragon before the nerf 2X. I had no problems with a pure dragon, got the fighter cleric, cause my ac was to high for a solid attack and my HAMMER crushed. See I made toons for everyone that thought they were bad and beat them. I am me and didn't complain unless I saw you cheat, I believe to beat you down without the special cheats that are going on and yes you get tirde of me beating you down so you have to whine to a DM to say I am cheating. I do not cheat, I beat down on a one on one basis. I am not going to say any names here, but if you partied with me I guess you were cool, but if I didnt you are not well liked. The Sd thing is solved in NWN2. It can happen here but it needs a patch. Make a good Elf cleric, Assassin, ranger,mage built right.

Nerf's? you got Nerfed poor baby. I have been the most nerfed player here. I did make some nerfs, well lots, but not vs PVP. I believe in beating you down one vs one, one vs 2, one , 3, one vs 4, after 4 I am done but has been done. Can ask the DM's here, Linux and me were a draw. (he was a good builder), the rest died and didin't complain and you shouldn't either.

Rdd dragons should be given other bonuses, not a true dragon form since it should be only in TC since it is thier EPIC class. RDD, like I said should bet con bonuses,k and ab bonuses.


Here is a nickels worth, enjoy.

/signed for shifter buffs.

But seriously

[Ryddwillow]

You should stick with FON, mining because you fit in nicely. I have the shifters and see there potential, and can quote on them, I have 3 druid dragons and can quote on them. SO your little triad makes lil use to me. 72 ac on a druid dragon (plus or minus) is not that good compared to other builds. Ab of a lvl 39 druid dragon stinks too, crits are horrible compared to other epic classes and your ab stinks too and no damage. They took all the strengths away and left the weaknesses. I saw a bard/wm master Dwarf Plane by drawing them out, try that with some huge dragon, you are dead!!! I have seen a lvl 30 bard/10 cot take on positive plane by drawing them out, try that with a dragon, or any shifter toon ? I mean I have seen, and you? I seen alot when a lvl 40 rogue\sd\fighter take on Lloths plane, by drawing them out, cudos to them for doing it. Back up your smack if you plan to put me down. Thank You for your attention.

[mining]

You should stick with FON, mining because you fit in nicely. I have the shifters and see there potential, and can quote on them, I have 3 druid dragons and can quote on them. SO your little triad makes lil use to me. 72 ac on a druid dragon (plus or minus) is not that good compared to other builds. Ab of a lvl 39 druid dragon stinks too, crits are horrible compared to other epic classes and your ab stinks too and no damage. They took all the strengths away and left the weaknesses. I saw a bard/wm master Dwarf Plane by drawing them out, try that with some huge dragon, you are dead!!! I have seen a lvl 30 bard/10 cot take on positive plane by drawing them out, try that with a dragon, or any shifter toon ? I mean I have seen, and you? I seen alot when a lvl 40 rogue\sd\fighter take on Lloths plane, by drawing them out, cudos to them for doing it. Back up your smack if you plan to put me down. Thank You for your attention.

Gold is a crappy dragon shifter with 74 AC in AB form, 67-71 AB depending on what short term crap I used. 1000 HP and reasonable DR too. She also solos most of posi, once upon a time he could probably have done white lord, but that would've been damnably hard without perfect lures and several thousand potions.

Sancreed is my other shifter, kobold with 56-60 AB depending on gear and indoors/outdoors, and 80-82 AC depending on whether my dex buffs can get dispelled. 666 HP (main selling point of the build ) and edodge (which wasn't a selling point at all) with reasonable damage, can solo reasonably well. If I watch spawns, keep at least 20-30 pots free, wear the right armor, and use AVA/prayer scrolls and pots, I can just about solo parts of the abyss, Celestia. Not well, but I can. Not much of an achievement, but PVM they hardly suck epically. Sancreed was also zanily easy to level.

PVPwise, I rarely use Gold (due to crappines), but on several notable occasions held her own against significantly larger groups. She still gets the crap beaten out of her more often than I'd like, but she can tank dexxer melee toons admirably well, while still damaging them fairly well, as Glow and others can attest to.

Sancreed is only good at tackling melee or stationary/slow toons, and at that he does and alright job, generally ending the life of many toons with reasonable speed, while being able to stick on IE and hold the fort for a time.

As to druid//shifter dragons, they arguably have mixed pros when compared with RDDs. RDDs tend towards winning with buffs into account, but druids can self buff more effectively.

[cRaZy8or5e]

You should stick with FON, mining because you fit in nicely. I have the shifters and see there potential, and can quote on them, I have 3 druid dragons and can quote on them. SO your little triad makes lil use to me. 72 ac on a druid dragon (plus or minus) is not that good compared to other builds. Ab of a lvl 39 druid dragon stinks too, crits are horrible compared to other epic classes and your ab stinks too and no damage. They took all the strengths away and left the weaknesses. I saw a bard/wm master Dwarf Plane by drawing them out, try that with some huge dragon, you are dead!!! I have seen a lvl 30 bard/10 cot take on positive plane by drawing them out, try that with a dragon, or any shifter toon ? I mean I have seen, and you? I seen alot when a lvl 40 rogue\sd\fighter take on Lloths plane, by drawing them out, cudos to them for doing it. Back up your smack if you plan to put me down. Thank You for your attention.

I KNOW WHO WILLOW IS! I finally figured it out.

He's the "wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more" guy of Monty Python fame who has a painfully distorted perception of things. Personally I get a kick out of watching him talk and show just how wrong he is, VERY entertaining.

[Ryddwillow]

I KNOW WHO WILLOW IS! I finally figured it out.

He's the "wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more" guy of Monty Python fame who has a painfully distorted perception of things. Personally I get a kick out of watching him talk and show just how wrong he is, VERY entertaining.

I think your boss said something like when Willow comments or starts an conversation it gets locked? You do not know me, I reserved comment. Hey you have a PDK?


ah hell since this is going to be locked might as well says what is on my mind. PDK lvl 32 bard, 3 cleric, 5 pdk and use fear from pdk and exploit it? (40 rnds of dc 52 save vs fear?) get charisma up to 50 with bard special.? Talk the talk walk the walk. And you were the one who exploited the job speed token with your own speed? and you were faster then a lvl 40 monk? The fear on the pdk lasts for the lvl of the toon. Exploit much mouth?


Lock this sorry he was to easy

[Shhhhhhh]

Just to be sure, once you cast the fear, the aura stays around you for 40 rounds, people who are feared dont get feared for 40 rounds.

[LinuxPup]

Also after making/failing your save vs the fear aura you should be immune to the fear aura from that creature/player for a few minutes if I recall.

[mining]

I KNOW WHO WILLOW IS! I finally figured it out.

He's the "wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more" guy of Monty Python fame who has a painfully distorted perception of things. Personally I get a kick out of watching him talk and show just how wrong he is, VERY entertaining.

I think your boss said something like when Willow comments or starts an conversation it gets locked? You do not know me, I reserved comment. Hey you have a PDK?


ah hell since this is going to be locked might as well says what is on my mind. PDK lvl 32 bard, 3 cleric, 5 pdk and use fear from pdk and exploit it? (40 rnds of dc 52 save vs fear?) get charisma up to 50 with bard special.? Talk the talk walk the walk. And you were the one who exploited the job speed token with your own speed? and you were faster then a lvl 40 monk? The fear on the pdk lasts for the lvl of the toon. Exploit much mouth?


Lock this sorry he was to easy

We have those toons already . It lasts ~ 5 or 6 rounds or something like that, and its pretty cool. Shame bard/cleric/pdk cha based is quite fragile.

[cRaZy8or5e]

I KNOW WHO WILLOW IS! I finally figured it out.

He's the "wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more" guy of Monty Python fame who has a painfully distorted perception of things. Personally I get a kick out of watching him talk and show just how wrong he is, VERY entertaining.

I think your boss said something like when Willow comments or starts an conversation it gets locked? You do not know me, I reserved comment. Hey you have a PDK?


ah hell since this is going to be locked might as well says what is on my mind. PDK lvl 32 bard, 3 cleric, 5 pdk and use fear from pdk and exploit it? (40 rnds of dc 52 save vs fear?) get charisma up to 50 with bard special.? Talk the talk walk the walk. And you were the one who exploited the job speed token with your own speed? and you were faster then a lvl 40 monk? The fear on the pdk lasts for the lvl of the toon. Exploit much mouth?


Lock this sorry he was to easy

Once again your commentary shows how irrelevant your lack of in-game knowledge makes you, and shows how far behind the curve you are. Charisma based PDK's have been around for quite some time. Using the fear aura in this way is not an exploit. It's the way the ability is designed. Much like the way that the defender of the pure token used to stack with haste and monk speed. We never exploited it, whoever implemented that job made it so that they all stacked. That's not something the players in NC did, it was implemented to stack.

The important part was that the defender of the pure token was quickly corrected, and although I had a biased idea as to why it was corrected, in hindsight I can see the need for such a correction. It was all corrected YEARS ago. Maybe what we need to do is create a forum for you, willow, that dwells on the controversies from the good old days so you can rehash that stuff over and over if you like. You're style of commentary hasn't changed much, you rarely have anything of value to contribute. But but what you did have to say was definitely more relevant then than the sad silly commentary of today.

And I AM NOT easy . . . unless you're 5'9", have blonde hair, and wear a wedding ring that I gave you . . .

[mining]

Probably 2/3 the stuff, just needs to ask 'mind if I take this +5 ring of crappines', rename it to 'wedding ring crazy gave me' and then... BAM "You're easy!"



Anyone else see it ending like that?

[Cahaal]

Good news is that if you have a shifter/good toon, you can probably solo 80% of levelling areas. - Mining Monk
IMO, a build is overpowered when it defeats far greater numbers. - Mining Monk

So I guess you believe that any shifter is equivalent of a "good" toon (and the good portion is by your definition). And you still think that they are not overpowered. The statements together are just contrary.

[LunarSquirrel]

Good news is that if you have a shifter/good toon, you can probably solo 80% of levelling areas. - Mining Monk
IMO, a build is overpowered when it defeats far greater numbers. - Mining Monk

Way to blur the line between an obvious PvM statement and an obvious PvP statement. Well done.

*EDIT* and before you retort asking is there a difference: yes, there's a big f'in difference.

[Rufio]

shifters are good for pvm because most pvm is standing there swinging and hoping you take damage slower than you can drink potions. shifters combine good ac and armor+shield damage reduction with good damage without requiring many buffs, but pvp requires versatility, which shifters just don't have. I have gotten away from my shifter builds for pvp because they suffer when the situation calls for more than just standing and swinging a weapon.