Timer on transition

[dethonlegs]

A con based wiz/PM might not have enough spells to do the trick

It didn't. It relied on death armor to damage it. I forgot to mention that a sling would kill it off quick enough

Something else not included in your story, neil would run multiple toons with that CoT stunner, usually that obnoxious pure cleric and probably a bard of some kind. So killing it would be difficult as he'd be healing it out of trouble.

Yeah, he used them to buff, but since it was 1 on 1 he'd leave them out of town. A single mord would help even things.

[frogofpeace]

The argument for making Drow available for only SL is an intriguing one. If there ever is a wipe again, this make sense. Why can't NC be good only? Well give us sorcs and rogues like SL has and we'll be good only

And rogues

[Bargeld]

35/5 sorc bg can usually destroy a monk cot 1 on 1. Mord, gdispel, neb, bigs 7, igm x4. That's 4 rounds, during which they crawl starting at round 1.5. You will have the 70+ ac to withstand any now unbuffed ranged attacks they try in order to cast all that. Run around a little, maybe another bigs 7, maybe need to re-neb the smart players. It's really not so bad if you use a couple specific builds... I imagine 29 1 10 sorc clc pm would do well also. I'm pretty sure that the ice storm builds can outlast them. And I think the focused bigs casters will win too.

I have always suggested cot good & drow evil only, in order to knock out a couple of the cot builds available. Drow as SL only might be worth the trade for CoT keeping non-good available.

I've seen hond's 77 hide as a corner sneaker vs melee. It's kinda like playing an assassin, with the low ab, you have to sneak to get the first hit to land, and you use the stun to paralyze. If it misses and things get hairy, you dart around a corner. Stun fist isn't as finicky as assassin death and para, they get broken with battle music and stuff... For the sake of description though, its similar play style. Hond's is probably a bit more survivable.

[mining]

To be fair, 77 hide on an assassin means you're using plate.

[Bargeld]

LOL yes. Sin's have much more hide, at least 110 with token (and that is bad). But they need it to get their sin-specific attack abilities off. Stuns aren't as sensitive, although the ab still hurts.

The tradeoff for a CoT on spot is HP and high saves. You can do 120 spot self with no caster levels on a monk stunner build using TS helm method, but you will end up with <500 hp and 'only' 45/55ish saves. That's like a fat mage.

[Monkey]

The simple fact of beeing evil , reduce drasticaly of race, subrace choice when making a toon....

The argument for making Drow available for only SL is an intriguing one.

Drow are Evil in most fantasy legend and it would make sense to have them be Evil only here, but other alignments would need a race or two bumped up to be worthy of an ECL 3.

There is already one Evil-only subrace (Githyanki) and a very good ECL 2 subrace (Tiefling). Besides Drow and Githyanki, the only other two ECL 3 sub-races have Charisma as a -2 or -4 ability, making them poor choices for most NC builds.

Northern Coalition already is the most limited faction in terms of class building options. I'd like to see NC be Good-only for story purposes too, but much would need to be done with racial and class balancing to make that a reasonable option.

[hond]

There is already one Evil-only subrace (Githyanki) and a very good ECL 2 subrace (Tiefling). Besides Drow and Githyanki, the only other two ECL 3 sub-races have Charisma as a -2 or -4 ability, making them poor choices for most NC builds.

There is a only good subrace too...
thiefling...yes....i still prefer the gitzerai...for an Ecl2...

Northern Coalition already is the most limited faction in terms of class building options. I'd like to see NC be Good-only for story purposes too, but much would need to be done with racial and class balancing to make that a reasonable option.

clas building option ?? take a paly monk CoT toon , and you can make 5 differents toons : zen archer divine damages spotter, tank dual kama, stunner, tank fister , smiter .And on each toon make them different with class repartitions and feats....you don't have sorc or wiz...ok ..but your subrace access give you also a lot of more options ...

[Rufio]

devs have stated in the past that drow and duregar don't have alignment restrictions because if they did it would create an imbalance of evil-only races.

I disagree with monkey about NC having the fewest build options though. NC has clear limitations, but they are very good at what they can do.

[Monkey]

I disagree with monkey about NC having the fewest build options though. NC has clear limitations, but they are very good at what they can do.

Perhaps a disagreement on semantics then. NC has a good number of powerful builds for PvP. They have the most limited range of classes to choose from for party balance and variety in multi-classing options:

NC - no Druids, Barbarians, Rogues, Wizards, Sorcerers, Blackguards
SL - no Druids, Rangers, Paladins, Harper Scouts

Factoring in TC and MA to make it a meaningful discussion of balance:

TCNC - No Wizards, Sorcerers, Blackguards (no Githyanki or Tiefling)
MASL - No Rangers, Druids, Paladins (no Aasimar)
AORK - Boring prestige classes to level and play (IMO)

And since this is a thread on transitions...

TC has no doors on any transition points to facilitate ambushes. Only SL has secret doors to slow down or delay raiders.

TC is still the most fun faction to play, IMO, even if it is arguably the weakest for PvP.

[Nyeleni]

MASL: No druids either.

[DM_Sultan]

Just put a dragon at every place there is now a transition line. That way you'd have to go through a dialogue before you could proceed to the next zone and you couldn't leave if you were in combat. That or a portal with a delay and a graphic that causes a further delay. Or, just leave it alone as it is.

Sultan

[rocketkai]

So you want to defeat the whole server with just one build? Someone built 50+ 40s on the server with more than half of which got nerfed.. I myself got almost 20 lvl 40 pvp toons and another 10 pvm only focused lvl 40 toons, with most of them are ecl 3. And how many have you built since you came to this server? People tried to make 40s over and over sometime just in order to defeat one certain built from one certain player. And from what I see here, what all you did in your short tenure on this server is just to complain instead of thinking how to deal with your opponents. Ask for your teammates how to beat a non-stunner cot if you can't figure it out by yourself. Come back to make more fusses after you get 20+ lvl 40s...

How many efforts have you put in order to beat most (>90%) of other non-cot toons with a stunner?

man ...first of all it take me lot of effort reaching 40 ...my first toon on 40...on second place i wanted this toon as anti SD, Cser or monks runner...so as i mentioned before, making a toon who have to reach high Spot with autobuff is not so easy compared than in other places.... with the stats i run, you will understand that is not so easy to kill the rest of non CoTs... with 77 hide/ms, no hyps, 70 AC epic dodge, 48 AB, and 57 DC stun, your not really a killing machine...the goal is the stun...but with that AB, trust me...is not so easy ... I can't push the win Hotcase wrath...you have to corner sneak, protect you the most posible with scroll, you have to breach, dispell, corner hide/stun listeners, and try taking flat footed the spoters...you have to avoid any bigby...any implode/black blade...also wail....I'm not playing a hypser or a OP cot stunner, who just have to rush right down and spam stun DC 62,at 65 AB and 80 damages averages....My toon is crap...and it cost a lot killing players with a crap toon....Lots of efforts, money and xps (scrolls and rods)....

and i'm far away of the 90 % you said...

[rocketkai]

This post is again full of speculations.. I have 10 pvp lvl 40 NC toons with 7 of them LG, 2 NG (both are bards, I wish em to be LG if I could), and one neutral. Try to build a bg smiter, if you still see what you thought, then come back to complain.

We only have three alignments LG, NG, and LN.

that the problem...cause if you check alignement of all NC toon the majority will LN...while in SL 100% are evil...you can skip the smite with LN toon ...if your not paly ...why bothering with good alignement...and curiosity of the case is , human subrace with favorite class Monk need to be neutral...and loyal for Monk...if your good only, goodby gitzerai, goodby water genasi or any human subrace if monk...as SL now...
you have no Sorcs ,no wizards, no rogue... but have harper scout, ranger , druid... as SL now (3 class with no access)
In all of case , i don't see any points your worst than SL...
The simple fact of beeing evil , reduce drasticaly of race, subrace choice when making a toon....If drows are not evil only, why SL have to be evil?? and in case we have to because yes....why NC can't be good only ???
you complain about an eventual "nerf" who will nerf access to subrace in NC....we have this nerf in SL....
and i don't mentioned the pure paly turner flooring all around ....

[rocketkai]

Re: Stunners: Where's the rogue/monk/SD at? That's a 120ish hide, DC 55ish stun build that shreds things.
Fighter/monk/CoT would also only have a 3-4 minute wrath at most, in addition to no divine feats (which btw I know most (>50%) stunner CoTs (even w/ cleric) don't take).

AFAIK, all the NC stunner cots　don't take divine might/shield.

but i have to take bloody, vigilance, SF spot, and esf spot for a +17 total...Some faction have a nice +20 token ...4 feats its a lot of difference betweens 2 toons...

Hond, this one makes me laugh.. Try to ask around and are there any dedicated spotters that don't take those feats? Looks like you are the only one..

[rocketkai]

* CON PM wiz could reliably kill it *IF* he decided to mele you. He soon learned simply ignoring you was the solution here.

Deth, I know that you are a veteran, but I won't mind to show you how to kill the most "powerful" cot/stunner with a pvm oriented con-based PM...