The Githzerai Subrace (Need Dev Input)

mumoogaipan · Post by **mumoogaipan** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:30 am

I was reading the D&D books and i found that the githzerai are supposed to have +6 dex, +2wis, -2 int. In NS4 the stats are +2 dex, +2 int, -2 str, and -2 wis. Additionally, the githzerai are supposed to have spell resistance starting at 5 at level and it increases by 1 every next level.

I just wanted to know the reason for the change.

XxDkCobraxX · Post by **XxDkCobraxX** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:31 am

possibly it would make them a bit too powerful for ns4?

TTG · Post by **TTG** » Sun May 09, 2004 12:45 pm

The toolset only increments SR by 2s, so you can't add it +1 every level. I'd imagine that the +6 to Dex is a bit way too much for them to gain. However, the rest of the stats are completely off from your description. I've got no clue about that.

Note I'm not trying to be mean if it sounds that way. I have a cold. Or tuberculosis. One of the two.

Dyson · Post by **Dyson** » Sun May 09, 2004 1:18 pm

I think they are too weak as is. Compare them to Drow. Same ECL, but Gith take respawn pens on any death and are vulnerable to banishment (a 6th level AOE death spell!) and planar binding. Drow have the same SR and better stats. I also don't view the light sensitivity to be as harsh a penalty as the gith's. Not to mention that gith has Monk as a favored class but it has a wis and str penalty? Odd.

The Deflection bonus is very strong at early-mid levels but tapers off by 13th where it is easy to have a +3 def item or if you can cast spells, 1st mage (shield) and 12th level cleric (shield of faith)

I am a certified planar nut and the first race I looked at was the Gith. One look was all it took, I doubt I will ever pay the XP cost for this race. +3 ECL really hurts.

The more I look at and play NS4 I think that it would be interesting to try to put everything as close to D&D 3.5 as possible. I've found it to be far more balanced than the 3.0 ruleset. Let the Giths look like they do in PnP, let's see the spells be as close to 3.5 as possible (haste I'm looking at you here).

This is a beta, let's see what the core rules can do. I see the developers paying close attention to 3.5 when modding spells and such and I like that.

lord_modred · Post by **lord_modred** » Sun May 09, 2004 2:56 pm

the only problems i have with the githzerai is that for some reason they have the same XP loss rules as planetouched, and they are effected by the "Banishment" spell, which only effects outsiders and summons. Githzerai are not in any way plane touched or outsiders, they are non-native inhabitants of a differant plane(they origionally came from the prime material plane until they escaped from the mindflayers and fled into Limbo), Githzerai are a type of humanoid and the same rules should apply to them as they do to other humanoids... not outsiders.

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Sun May 09, 2004 5:06 pm

If the ac bonus would stack with other items I think the +3 level would be correct. Can't ac bonus for races be made natural ac?

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sun May 09, 2004 5:17 pm

I think if dm's used Mod(insert stat here) when chars were created it'd count as a base stat. I assume the same could be done with ac. But i'm not sure if a bot dm could be made to do this, as certainly it'd be a waste of a dm's time to have them check over all the new characters.

Post by **Lokey** » Sun May 09, 2004 7:01 pm

Heard talk of a bot DM from someone last year, don't know what came of it.

Changing char files permanently is something we will do, but it's not on the do immediately list--bugfix, tweak for latency issues, content.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:53 pm

I've looked at the stats for a correct Gith...and Mumoo is right. The stats are WAY off for the gith in NS4. Gith are supposed to be quintessential monks chars for the astral plane. Yet.....NS4 really doesn't make the gith serve their PnP designed purpose.

Even with the +6 dex....that is a high ecl....3 Maybe change it to +4 dex instead and implement the rest fo mumoo's ideas. That would justify the +3 ecl

mumoogaipan · Post by **mumoogaipan** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:59 pm

The thing i wanted calrified is wether or not the devs were using the 3.5 ver of the githzerai or not. I just wanted to know because if it were based off of the 3.5 gith then there are some serious issues. ^_^. Also, in the 3.5 book gith get all the stats i stated above plus an ECL of only 2. A bit lax if i might say so myself. Anyway, the only reason why i was concerned was that i wanted to play a gith and then i found that the stats were askew from the PnP version and the ECL was increased. I just wanted to know why the devs did it thats all ^_^.

Post by **Lokey** » Sun May 09, 2004 11:35 pm

How about we're using 3.0 race templates with some 3.5 spell balancing?

Think ours are the 3.0 DMG versions, maybe Guide to the Planes or other sources vary between campaign settings.

-----

Ecl 2 for all those mods--there has to be a catch

garrykasparov · Post by **garrykasparov** » Mon May 10, 2004 1:11 am

I admit to being curious about that as well. I had always thought that a race renowned for its monks would stress wisdom over intelligence.

Dallas17 · Post by **Dallas17** » Mon May 10, 2004 7:09 pm

well, i have yet to meet any other Githzarai that have managed to reach decent power than myself, level 17 Sorcerer Apollo. and let me just tell you, it was insanely difficult to level! the SR is generally weak, especially compared to the cleric spell 'spell resistance' and the death penalty is a pain (especially when you bound yourself inside the enemy barracks and get spawn camped O.O that wasn't an easy one to escape, hehe)

overall i'm not TOO mad about the pains of this class, atleast i wasn't until i found out after all my hard work the SR caps at 30.... now that has got to be the worst thing i've heard yet. first of all it's INSANE to level these characters, to get decent gains i was fighting NS guards at level 14... at level 9 i was in the giant caves. at level 3 i was at the kobalts in the ash mountains. at level 1 i was in the sea caves. i basically have to be wherever a character 3 levels above me would be.. to make matters worse, synergy bonus doesn't work on ECL, it works on CL. so i can't level with people that fight in the same area's as me without penalty :/

i doubted myself around 13, it REALLY got slow at that point.. but i continued, and it's starting to get better. i know i'm miles away from level 24 when i would have had 34 SR, but i hope by the time i get there i will indeed find that has been changed, because for the work put into having a character of this race, it's very deserved. same with drow who are also capped. these characters are VERY difficult to level, i infact only know 1 drow my level and no githzerai my level..

garrykasparov · Post by **garrykasparov** » Mon May 10, 2004 11:30 pm

Wait...racial SR caps at 30? Glad to find that out now. I suppose that it will still be useful against some multi-classing mobs at higher levels; against other players however the SR will not be very useful since most who target others offensively with spells will be close to pure-class. An epic char with 20 caster levels with epic penetration has at least a 4/5 chance of bypassing 30 SR -- one with 24 levels and epic penetration can completly ignore it.

Dallas17 · Post by **Dallas17** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:23 am

yah it's pretty lame, especially since we'll continue to have that huge ECL post 20 and not gain a thing for it really, atleast nothing worth that much of a cost..