Hold Person

[Bariagan]

The duration of hold person needs to be increased. I am a level 7 cleric, and have had it for 3 levels, and it still lasts only 1 round. This makes the spell completely pointless and incredibly weak when compared with other spells of the same level.

Take for example Sound Burst, this spell affects multiple targets, deals 1d8 poitns of damage, and if they fail a will save dazes them for 2 rounds.

Hold Person, requires a will save, only effects 1 target, and lasts for 1 round, no damage. I think its duration is 1 round every 4 levels (so two at level and this makes it useless. I would have to go up to level 12 to get it up to 3 rounds, and even then it is debatable if sound burst would still not be better, because it can effect multiple targets. The duration needs to be increased, either a set amount like 3 + 1 level every 4 or bring it to 1 round every 2 levels, so it is at least a viable choice.

Anyone have any comments/suggestions or problems with this?

[Dyson]

I'd like to see the duration set back to 1 round/level, but institute the 3.5 rule for the hold line, where the target gets a save each round till he either makes it or the spell expires.

Is that scriptable?

[Æ]

Holding is better than dazing, a dazed target can still move, slowly (and avoid melee attacks). And one round held is one round of your summon beating on him flatfooted and you can (as a cleric) attack with your melee weapon during this round too. It may be short, but it's far from worthless if you use it right.

[Bariagan]

Actually, you can't hit them, I have tried. By the time your attack comes around, the hold has worn off. That is why sound burst is better, it lasts for two rounds... enough for you to get at least 1 attack in.

[JesterOI]

Is there anyway to disable shield ac while a target is held? Or is that already done?
It makes sense to me to remove shield ac when a taret is held....

[RahzeL]

No it doesn't flatfooted only effects dex mod... Although i've seen some wierd stuff happen while my Pali/Bard/RDD was dazed on Bastions. He got hit with a 13 roll (43 in all) and he has 66 ac So im unsure of what is scripted and whats written in this *insert insult* manual... /me throws it in trash can

[Kelin]

I don't see why 1 round every 4 levels is condisered low. At lvl 20 it lasts 5 rounds. If you can't manage to kill something with spells in 5 rounds then is your problem. At level 40 it lasts 10 rounds. 10. I don't see all this short duration... just level up, shouldn't be hard for a caster with that lame summons and spells

[Bariagan]

I don't see why 1 round every 4 levels is considered low. At lvl 20 it lasts 5 rounds. If you can't manage to kill something with spells in 5 rounds then is your problem. At level 40 it lasts 10 rounds. 10. I don't see all this short duration... just level up, shouldn't be hard for a caster with that lame summons and spells

At high levels it becomes more useful, but still is rather ineffective when compared with other spells. The point I was making was that it was a useless spell at lower levels. By giving it such a short duration, it forces clerics to rely on their summons or comrades to use it, and even then other spells are much more useful. At level 11 the spell lasts only 2 rounds, compared with sound burst, the spell is a joke. I would prefer to change how the duration is calculated, maye start it off with 4 rounds + 1 round every 8 levels, something to make it actually useful. By making certain spells useless, clerics are being channeled into particular builds, usually a summon/melee cleric, which in turn leads to complaints like yours.

While it is important to look at the engame capability of spells, to make sure they do not become too powerful (a 20 round hold person would be wrong), it is also vital that people consider the initial uses of such spells. Most spells are only useful for a limited time, before they become eclipsed by higher level spells. Hold person is one of those spells, it is so specific (only affects humanoids) and does not kill or hurt its target (like harm, slay living, or implosion) that it is rarely used by higher level clerics when other options are availiable.

[Shasz]

Instead of 1 round every 4 levels, perhaps it should be 1 + 1 round every 5 levels? You're still at 5 rounds at 20th that way, but you've got 2 rounds at 7th, 3 at 10th, and some early utility in the spell.