Umm

[-BannyD-]

Stunning fist, knockdown, pure fighter knockdown tokens, pure barb stuns, even assassin death attack are all things that disable, your opponent cant heal, loses dex bonus, etc. How is Time Stop any different, except that fact that it costs one of your spells per rest, and a crystal?

timestop is very different. timestop has no save and a huge range. make a pure fighter and/or pure barbarian and see how useful your token is when the opponent is more than a footstep away. the fighter token is arguable impossible to save, but it at least has a DC and is capped at uses per day. barbarian token isnt all that powerful.

timestop has a huge range. it doesnt make you waste another round before you can do damage again (as the fighter or barb item does...going from item useage to melee) either.

and yes i am going to give you the Flesh 2 Stone argument. its a will save, and actually...i think thats all that needs to be known.

stunning fist, knockdown, death attack...all need to hit first and then succeed verse a check on the opponent to work. fighter token and barb token needs the opponent to be close and then succeed verse a check on the opponent to work. timestop needs a crystal to work...i dont really see a problem.

*edit* oh yea, and no...everyone doesnt get access to these things and dont think you're three feats you spent are something others dont have to go through. KD requires two feats or 6monk levels...Stun fist requires a high wisdom and/or a couple feats to work...death attacks.........................pure fighter token needs 2feats to get that high DC...pure barb token needs high con to get a good DC which can mean feats invested.

mages are still the most powerful class in NWN. heh, you should just be glad timestop is actually enabled at all.

[Amoenotep]

ok...let me explain the drop tables again...maybe you will understand.


drops are divided into categories for CR of creatures. each CR has a certain category of items that can drop in its loot.

*example:

Gobo's have... gold, misc. low lvl items, potions, low lvl gear.

Ice Giants have... gold, misc items, potions, mid lvl gear, unique drops, artifacts

as you can tell there are 2 more categories of items added to the Giants drop tables...why? because they are high lvl and you can get more and better stuff from them.

Time Crystals weren't changed from frequency of drop...NS4 doesn't work like that. Crystals were changed from CR16 drops to CR 25-30+ drops. They were taken away from the low end mobs because the item was never intended to go there...it is a high lvl drop.

that means Crystals will drop on any monster of that CR or higher...normal, special, or boss. doesn't matter. all you have to remember is the higher the CR the more categories that get added to its table.

when you look at this it went from a table with not much choices and dropped all the time to a table that has literally thousands of items that can drop at random.....can you see why they drop more rare? its not a 1 in 10 table anymore. its more like a 1 in 5000 table.

and NO, they won't be brought back down to a low CR table.

[-BannyD-]

and NO, they won't be brought back down to a low CR table.

...can +4 books be? doesnt have to be long....just make sure im on and playing

[VagaStorm]

and NO, they won't be brought back down to a low CR table.

...can +4 books be? doesnt have to be long....just make sure im on and playing

LAMO, I have never seen a +4 book... ever..... I*m gona have to start farming higher lvl areas... :p

[Malik]

All I hear is please make books rarer.

*shrugs*

OK.

Quoted for the truth

[-BannyD-]

Noooo

[Ebenezer Grymm]

Stunning fist, knockdown, pure fighter knockdown tokens, pure barb stuns, even assassin death attack are all things that disable, your opponent cant heal, loses dex bonus, etc. How is Time Stop any different, except that fact that it costs one of your spells per rest, and a crystal?

timestop is very different. timestop has no save and a huge range. make a pure fighter and/or pure barbarian and see how useful your token is when the opponent is more than a footstep away. the fighter token is arguable impossible to save, but it at least has a DC and is capped at uses per day. barbarian token isnt all that powerful.

timestop has a huge range. it doesnt make you waste another round before you can do damage again (as the fighter or barb item does...going from item useage to melee) either.

and yes i am going to give you the Flesh 2 Stone argument. its a will save, and actually...i think thats all that needs to be known.

stunning fist, knockdown, death attack...all need to hit first and then succeed verse a check on the opponent to work. fighter token and barb token needs the opponent to be close and then succeed verse a check on the opponent to work. timestop needs a crystal to work...i dont really see a problem.

*edit* oh yea, and no...everyone doesnt get access to these things and dont think you're three feats you spent are something others dont have to go through. KD requires two feats or 6monk levels...Stun fist requires a high wisdom and/or a couple feats to work...death attacks.........................pure fighter token needs 2feats to get that high DC...pure barb token needs high con to get a good DC which can mean feats invested.

mages are still the most powerful class in NWN. heh, you should just be glad timestop is actually enabled at all.

This is also almost all complete bull.

You say timestop has no save. True. You also say the pure fighter token is unsavable against, which might as well be no save. You then have the nerve to say the pure barb token isn't all that powerful. Testing last night on a lvl 35ish HNs barb was showing DC's in the 58 range, and I'm sure he could make it higher if he went with more Con in his build. Only difference is it's on a 3-5 minute timer, fighter gets 3/rest.

You say time stop has great range. Semi true. With no focuses and less than 35 caster levels, it's has crap range. 1 tile I think, centered around the caster. About the same as a fighter or barb. I took three feats to make mine have range so I don't need to get into melee range with my 38 or so AC.

For your "oh yea, and no...everyone doesnt get access to these things and dont think you're three feats you spent are something others dont have to go through." Duh. But they can use them over and over and over again.

Heres one for you, Tep. Counterspell. Can I counterspell knockdown spams, and pure class tokens? It's somehow my fault no one uses counterspell?

OK so more drop categories are added to higher CRs of creatures. Told ya, I got it. Let's take Ice Giant scouts for example. Hey, they're the only ones that drop Ice Giant bows. Ice Giant Warriors drop Ice Giant Scythes.
I don't see Amazons dropping Ice Giant stuff. So theres a difference in what drops between each mob of similiar CR. Find a mob suitable to time crystals and put em in as that type of drop was my suggestion.

Heres the best one though at the heart of it all.

"timestop needs a crystal to work...i dont really see a problem."
"its more like a 1 in 5000 table."

[Ryddwillow]

In my own opinion, I think the drop rates are where they should be, Timestop is a VERY powerful spell in which it should be treated as such. I really dont think timestop should be on this server from the first, or made to just cast defensive spells. In comparing other class feats or special abilities to a mage, it is like comparing apples to oranges. Each character has it's own makeup in the eye of the beholder. I'd say move on and build another mage that doesnt rely on timestop - simple.

[-BannyD-]

You then have the nerve to say the pure barb token isn't all that powerful. Testing last night on a lvl 35ish HNs barb was showing DC's in the 58 range, and I'm sure he could make it higher if he went with more Con in his build. Only difference is it's on a 3-5 minute timer, fighter gets 3/rest.

DC 15 +1/2 lvl + Con modifier. I highly doubt a lvl 35, or a lvl 80...has a 23con modifier. Enemies also seem to get spellcraft added to their save verse it.

"timestop needs a crystal to work...i dont really see a problem."
"its more like a 1 in 5000 table."

Didnt you say you still have plenty muled up still? I dont feel like lookinf for the quote at this point but its been stated several times by you i think. I have at least a mule full of time crystals with boxes on him myself...+random ones on other toons.

Perhaps once you run out yourself they will become a valueable trade item and I will have plenty you can buy .

mages are still powerful with or without timestop. Slaves built a toon with epic transmutation before timestop was even changed to waht it is now...transmutation isnt a waste, I'm sorry you still feel it is though. either way, a mage can still counter just about anything thrown at them; whereas, with a melee toon...you dont have as much versatility IMHO.

[Ebenezer Grymm]

You need to take your pure barb and test out your stun on another slave. The description in the change log is wrong, the save was 58 that I saw, and it wasn't constant like it should be baed on the formula in the change log.

Slaves built a toon with epic trans before time stop was changed. Thats nice. It was a waste of feats back then too then. It doesnt effect a damn thing besides time stop.

So here we have a pure barb who doesn't know how his own stun dc works, saying epic trans is not a waste, yet admitting the only other decent spell flesh to stone is garbage because of the save.

Then we've got Willow who hasnt played in god knows how long talking about the drop rates are what they should be, without being here to see them, and last time we met up he supirisngly got dropped by me and time stop.

I don't even rely on time stop, I have 4 epic focuses. But 3 of my feats are in trans and now trans is worthless. Please show me some evidence of something trans focus is good for now.

Since theres hardly a pure arcane caster left at all in NS4, and I'm the primary one, you're not gonna hear a lot of people chiming in, cept for Tep reminiscing of the old days, and his crappy builds that are so fun.

The fact is though as one of the last arcane casters left, yeah I have a lot of tools, I'm just pissed you took away 3 of my feats and I'd like them worth something again.

My suggestions seem simple and fair enough, or yeah just make books more rare, I'm all for that.

Right now your drop system as far as the crystals go is broken, why didnt you just remove the spell completely? Or heres a better one, why didnt you post the change in the change log? Stealth nerf.

By making the drop rate as it is now, you've taken one of the few effective 9th lvl arcane spells, and completely negated all the trans focus feats.

I can't think of a single nerf in recent history that destroyed 3 feats like that. Unless u can attempt to explain how Transmutation is still worthy at all for casters. Right now it's just Conj, and Conj. (I'd say abj, but really most of the important spells are auto stripped so the focuses dont help too much).

[VagaStorm]

I tested with an MD last night, not the pure class token, but terifying rage, which is based on intimidate,cha(useless for anything else on a barb) actualy you can get it with 21 barb lvls :p but it's a waste as ther are ways to get around it I belive. I have seen sevral toons run past it like nothing happend...

[-BannyD-]

the Slave that took epic trans was rather effective. i mentioned earlier that it was a will save. i find it very valueable for that reason, if it was fortitude...it would be kinda sucky. but will save spells are something to value. it is the only other decent trans spell, but it is not garbage.

my pure barb has a -constant- DC on his roar item, i check almost everytime i use it, on monster or player.

perhaps it wasnt the token you were seeing, but the terrifying rage, the only other thing that has a save for a barb. that DC changes with a 1d10 roll. OR perhaps the HNs was reading it wrong.

for the pure barb item it says something like:

hold check: dc 45 failed vs dc 61
some other check: dc 45 failed vs dc 54

the -first- number is the pure barb item DC, the second is the rolled save by said enemy....i think it is you, and the confused HNs, that do not know the save.

[Hunny-bunny]

Eb can't seem to take no for an answer....