Speed and MA

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:05 pm

now first off this IS NOT a give MA monks thread honestly i couldent care less having only 1 MA toon whos sole purpose is to see the relic situation.

however MA has no counter to monk speed builds the most MA can have speed wise is 50% from haste whereas ANY other faction can have a 220% (?) speed monk build if they want this leaves MA at the whim of these speed deomon monks and there is no way for someone from MA to chase down a monk build of this sort.

if im wrong on this let me know if im correct then something needs to be done to even the field.

one suggestion off the top of my head is to allow spell focuses to increase the speed of haste up to 200% or close to monks top speed ( this option seems the most inline with the server IMO and it would effect all factions)

you could also allow the speed bonus from the job to stack with haste. this would give MA toons with haste upto 170% IIRC +50% from haste and +20%? from the job

either way about it MA is at a SEVERE disadvantage in the speed realm and this needs some attention to "level the field"

and to thoes of you that are going to bring up the DA and PMs they are a non issue in this discussion because if it cant catch you or atleast keep up its no threat at all.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:46 pm

Eh, I'm going no here. MA has mages which have access to Time Stop, Haste, Mass Haste, and Expeditious Retreat.

And where did you manage to get 220%? Monks get a 10% Speed Bonus that will not stack with Haste once the Speed Bonus accumulates to 100%. So the highest you can go is level 40, and the level 39 below that is the highest divisible by 3. 39/3 is 13, and times that by 10% and your maximum speed bonus is 130%. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

And the field is already even, if not tipped to MA. MA has access to arguably the most powerful PrC in the game. I'm sure people from MA are tired of hearing about that, but its true. Pale Masters have Immunity to Crits, an effective Immunity to Stunning Fist (Sandy has not been able to stun one), and such a high AC with an improved Summon its crazy.

And 200% Speed is DM speed so you're a bit off. Severe Disadvantage coming from MA is a bit contradictory, considering MA has the second to best defensive position in the game (or so I consider it).

And the PM can't catch argument falls short as if I can't touch you when you're smashing the cradle then I'm no threat at all. Its double-edged, because in all cases a PM doesn't have to catch a monk. Also PMs have access to long-ranged spells so theres another way to catch a monk.

Ebenezer Grymm · Post by **Ebenezer Grymm** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:07 pm

The speed thing isnt really that big of a deal for us, we kinda laugh at monks like Sandy when she really cant do anything but run against us.

What is really more of an issue is the RK knockdown item, that is absurd. I mean really just absolutely ridiculous. I'll be the 1st one to call for a nerf on that one.

I guess the other thing that would be a big help and pertinent to this thread is the Angmar Oasis binding area. That should be for MA only. As many times as we kill monks like Sandy and Foramin they just bind there and are back in almost the time it takes for us to buff. The only other city I can think of that has an enemy binding point that close is LA with Evenshire and Ave.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:15 pm

Its got a DC of 30 for will, so if you're getting knocked down by that thing then you screwed up your own build there bud.

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:16 pm

from nswiki and nwnwiki

A Monk's movement rate increases by 10% for every 3 levels starting with level 3.

Monk speed continues to increase after level 20. It increases by 10% at monk level 21,24,27,30,33,36 and 39.

so at 20 lvls of monk the monk has +60% (160%) speed (already above haste) and at 39 lvls the monks speed is actualy +130% (230% better than doubble haste) where as all other non hasted toons move at the full +0% (100%) movement rate

unless NS has made some special changes to the monk speed feat

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:18 pm

Oh I get it, wasn't sure what you were talking about. Not used to adding on the Normal Moving Rate. Usually speak in terms of Movement Bonus rather than Total Movement Rate.

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:22 pm

quitew understandable mistake or misread frice but you see what im refering to

grymm it may not be an issue to you but it is an issue for MA as you cannot hit or harm that wich you cannot catch or atleast keep up with

Post by **Yonwe** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:44 pm

Hiding and Searching at same time; Heavy Encumbrance = 25%
Hiding; Searching; Light Encumbrance = 50%
Normal Movement = 100%
Barbarian, 3rd Monk = 110%
6th Monk = 120%
Haste/E. Retreat = 150%
20th Monk = 160%
40th Monk = 230%
(40th Monk with Haste = 280%; not possible in NS4)
DM = 300%
DM with Haste = 350%

Haste was intended to add an additional 50% movement speed, as seen above; it does this under most every circumstance because there's a code in the engine preventing movement rate adjustments that total more than 150%. For example, a Hasted Barbarian still moves at 150%, the same as a normally Hasted character, despite having a +10% natural speed increase. This movement limit is removed for a Monk, since they naturally gain the ability to move faster that 150% on their own, and Bioware opted for the quick solution rather than the correct solution. Ergo, Haste just tacks on a blanket +50% to any Monk.

~kSt~Warlord~kSt~ · Post by **~kSt~Warlord~kSt~** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:21 pm

Aarkon Draco wrote:quitew understandable mistake or misread frice but you see what im refering to

grymm it may not be an issue to you but it is an issue for MA as you cannot hit or harm that wich you cannot catch or atleast keep up with

and that is why each factions have unique benifits....

if you dont like it play another faction

if everything was to be balanced it would defeat the purpose of factions

Dynmi · Post by **Dynmi** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:50 pm

Well said warlord, every faction has its ups and downs.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:14 pm

whats the speed of a DM lvl 40 monk with haste?

Dynmi · Post by **Dynmi** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:20 pm

I'd imagine the same as an African swallow.

disastro · Post by **disastro** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:11 am

heh. the speed thing is annoying, especially when it seems like everyone else involved in pk is a monk/shadowdancer (8+ months on reflections and i dont recall the last time pk DIDN'T involve a monk/sd. seriously.) the lure of high speed for a relic runner is apparently impossible to resist.

but we deal with it pretty well in a variety of ways: teamwork, timestop, bigby. Surprisingly not often using pale masters... most IO players on reflections don't even have a pale master toon or else play them infrequently. I went through 6-7 builds before i built my first pm. for the most part IOs generally make builds that could be made almost anywhere, cleric/wm/bard/wiz/ftr etc.

thus it's ironic that all these restrictions were put in place on MA to prevent the pale master faction from running the board, yet on reflections we've done just that *without* pale masters.

-Chronepsis- · Post by **-Chronepsis-** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:01 am

You guys from MA ever try making an archer with high spot? Just shoot the darn wabbit

.

Post by **VagaStorm** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:43 am

I was just wondering something, sinc feats can not be rewriten without a hak. Dos blinding speed stak with monk speed?