Time Stop

[TheBestDeception]

Metis has said time and time again to make suggestions in the suggestion thread, but to discuss them elsewhere, in order to keep that thread half-way abbreviated.... so here are the responses to Banny's suggestion

i think a nice fix to timestop as is would be remove the party friendly ability from it. currently you can chain together time stops so your opponent has no way of doing anything while your entire team/friendlies can run around unaffected.

change the spell to freeze all but the caster, since the caster is the only one who is actually stopping time (or rather speeding up his own). i would assume a spell that 'stops time' for the entire hoard of allies you have so they all can do amazing feats in a blink of the eye would rather epic...like the Wish spell or something that costs incredible amounts of gp, time to invest, and xp.

i dont exactly want to ruin the spell or time crystals, but the ease of crystals dropping + the power of the spell as is makes TS almost an exploit. if my suggestion was adopted (i believe this is what the spell is originally supposed to do) it would make using the spell much more thought-worthy. Will freezing my opponents be a better benefit to me than freezing my party? Can I take down this target with my own abilities while TS is running? I dunno...it makes the spell much more...selfish I guess and less powerful.

I do like that idea on time stop, and it sounds like a nice balance as the only people in my faction that can use it a very focused bards with wizard friends (If its even scribable)

How about leave TS the way it is, except only allow it to be cast a limited number of times per day based on spell foci.

a truly evil way to control time stop might be to have it cost significant xp (1000 + 10% of what you have gained for this level, if you cant pay the cost no ts for you though that wont help you against the 40 with 900,000 extra xp.

or give each successive time stop a greater chance to summon a CR (your level +10) Time Rift Guardian that is uber and aggro to the caster (if it could be made to exclusively chase the caster, that is). Rips in spacetime must be avoided and there is an entire race dedicated to this task.

nothing explicitly stopping you from casting it.. just something that makes you not WANT to spam it but it still remains useful as a panic button once in a while.

Banny has the best idea so far, because not only does it fix the problem but it returns Time Stop to what it originally was.

Squikker's is good too, except I don't see it as being too effective. It really only takes one time stop to win a fight (provided you have someone to bash the frozen peoples).

Disastro's xp loss, not so much. Too cruel, would completely kill the spell. No spell should cost 1k xp to cast. Ever.

Personally, I agree that in its current state, it is broken. Time Crystals, which were meant to be a form of control, are found VERY easily in the upper level areas. It is almost to the point that you don't need to worry about farming or buying them, because if you are leveling a high level character, you will find plenty.

As well, merely lowering the drop rate for time crystals will do little to reduce the immense stockpiles of them that exist. On the other hand, Banny's idea makes the use of timestop more reasonable, imo, if it is possible to code it as such.

[Binkyuk]

I personally don't like the idea of making it 'more selfish'. I prefer making it only usable every N minutes (5 or 10) per caster. Fixes the spamming problem while still allowing your allies to benefit from it (something i consider a philosophical plus). Hopefully this is doable just by adding a variable to the caster.

The idea of random misfires isn't bad, though a CR whatever monster sounds highly dodgy. A more physical effect, like level*d6 magic damage to self. Though if implementable i'd prefer to penalise spamming than penalise all uses.

[LunarSquirrel]

I'm agree with Banny 100% on his suggestion. The logic is sound: you're the mage...you're the only one that should benefit from it's effects. I'm all for leaving it to only the caster moving.

[TheBestDeception]

Maybe instead of increasing the duration with focuses and concentration (as currently implemented), those factors could reduce the chance of these failures.

Let's just face it: any time there is a large scale conflict (5+ on each side), and one of them uses just 1 timestop @ 3 rounds, its basically over for the other team. Ideally, this duration could be reduced, if the party-wide aspect is kept.

[Edit] But I still agree with Banny....

[DM Sun Tzu]

The spell description says:

Time Stop
Caster Level: Wizard/Sorcerer 9
Innate Level: 9 School: Transmutation
Component(s): V Range:Personal
Save: None Spell Resistance: No
Area of Effect/Target: Caster
Duration: 9 seconds
Description: The caster is able to defy the sands of time, casting spells,
moving about, and attacking normally while the rest of the world
appears suspended, as if in stasis.

Based on that, only the caster enjoys the benefits.

Therefore I think that -BannyD-'s suggestion is the right one.

[JesterOI]

That's beautiful Sun Tzu, but you more than most should know that you guys don't go by the spell descriptions provided by bioware.
Apparently you guys have no problem pointing out the bioware spell description when it suits your cause though

But, I agree.

Time Stop should allow only caster to move and act.
HOWEVER
Time Stop should NOT require time crystals. Why? Mages can cast only a limited amount of times with each rest.
Sure a mage could mem up and use all level 9 castings for TS, but they are compromising to do that by not leaving room for other spells to cast.
(If there are no other useful level 9 spells to use, that's the devs fault )



Mages need TC's for TS? Let's see random drop water canteens required to let a melee use KD a limited amount of times.

[kingfatzo]

I'm agree with Banny 100% on his suggestion. The logic is sound: you're the mage...you're the only one that should benefit from it's effects. I'm all for leaving it to only the caster moving.

i agree...completly

and agree with many of the other statements

TS has turned into a laughable spell;

a caster-only benifit is a very potential solution - just as DM Sun-Tzu has quoted

In addition:

Time Stop should allow only caster to move and act.
HOWEVER
Time Stop should NOT require time crystals. Why? Mages can cast only a limited amount of times with each rest.
Sure a mage could mem up and use all level 9 castings for TS, but they are compromising to do that by not leaving room for other spells to cast.

that is another logical idea - limiting TS to only benifit the caster (and freeze everything else on the map can essentially throw out the function of TS crystals ; then again, the whole idea of time crystals was pretty cool in itself.

[P. Fricebottle]

What do water canteens have to do with knockdown?

[JesterOI]

What do water canteens have to do with knockdown?

RP reasons, physical exertion. Help balance out the infinite spammability.

[kingfatzo]

keep on topic.... plz comming from me thats funny, but nonetheless we are going really well with a discussion on TS - if you want to see change then keep the CRAP out of this thread

(and to essentially end the discussion on KD - it is a feat -- whereas TS spell is easily, if not effortlessly attainable - seeming that there are only a handful of good lvl 9 spells to begin with) so is not comparable by any means ...

lets move on .

[Squikker2001]

How about leave TS the way it is, except only allow it to be cast a limited number of times per day based on spell foci.

Clarification, when I said this, I mean in-game days (48-minute intervals) as opposed to per rest.

[kingfatzo]

How about leave TS the way it is, except only allow it to be cast a limited number of times per day based on spell foci.

Clarification, when I said this, I mean in-game days (48-minute intervals) as opposed to per rest.

aye, that was assumable, a very practical idea...but we all know that the level of common sense with some people is quite low

[disastro]

caster only doesnt stop the spam issue however. it does reduce the power of the spell a great deal but it's not a complete solution.

personally i DO lke the team friendly aspect of it, it's exactly the kind of party-saving effect you'd expect out of a 9th level spell.

it would be cool if you could keep it as is but limit it to a "once per rest" kind of spell like the epics. an xp cost is harsh but would also prevent it from being repeatedly cast and having gameplay degenerate into a "who-has-best-ping" twitch contest. it would also be a cool desperation tactic... is life bad enough that you want to pop that switch? will the respawn penalty be worse? will you take one on the chin to save the team like gandalf on the bridge? put some strategy into the use of ts, especially if combined with another time limiter.

edit: would also give the bored lvl 40s a small reason to keep kicking around.

[kingfatzo]

personally i DO lke the team friendly aspect of it, it's exactly the kind of party-saving effect you'd expect out of a 9th level spell.

it doesnt have to be party friendly just to be party saving --

it would freeze everything on the map but the caster..

now..

a lvl 30+ mage w/ 3 rounds of TS and autoquickened with a full bank of IGMS can deal a decent ammount of party saving damage - even with the rest of the party immoblized -- and it eliminates the over-powerd-ness of TS

[JesterOI]

This BS about limiting how often a mage can use TS is just that... BS.
They already have limited spells per day.

caster only doesnt stop the spam issue however

Spam issue? Are you on crack?
If anything needs to have a limit on spamming, it's KD. Put a timer on KD like on taunt, 6 sec cool down.
KD is easily more attainable than Time Stop. Time Stop currently needs TWO feats to work at peak efficiency, not to mention you NEED to invest 17 (SEVENTEEN) levels in a class to get it.

As for a full bank of IGMS, pfft, like that can kill anything after the elemental planes.