Hmmm...thread necromancy.
Yeah, it's worth it.
+1 vote to giving shifters buffs to their shapes based on WIS bonuses. Mages and Clerics can do it to their summons, why can't we do it to ourselves?
Has anyone looked at the damage output of unarmed Shapes? This server's weapons deal much higher damage than normal NWN weapons (2d4, d10, 2d6, etc extra physical damage), but I don't think the Shape damages have been boosted to match.
Shifter Suggestions Thread
Something else that might be easier as a temp. fix: Give Shifters a bonus feat, +1 AB for every 4 class levels. That gives a +7 to all shapes AB at level 40. Call it "knowledge of your enemy" or something--since they can take any form they know the weaknesses of all.
EDIT
One problem Shifters have is that two of their three Epic shifting feats require the use of other Epic feats to obtain at a reasonable level.
To obtain Dragonshape at level 39 (last possible chance), a shifter has to start the game at WIS 18 (highest I could start at at char creation last night), and bump that by 12 points before level 39. 9 stat points can come from level-ups, but the other have to come from Great Wis feats. A shifter gets 7 Epic feats. At a minimum, 3 have to be Great Wis... plus one more for Dragonshape. If a shifter wants maximum versatility, and takes Construct and Undead Shapes, that leaves only *ONE* feat free. It could be that I was making some sort of mistake yesterday, and you can start at WIS 20 by screwing over all your other stats, but if so, that still leaves only 3 free Epic feats. Fewer if you want Dragonshape earlier.
No other class has a stat requirement higher than 25 for any feat. Unless shifters get some free bonus epic feats (to give them a chance to boost WIS), the WIS requirements need to be lowered a bit...say to 24 and 27.
EDIT
One problem Shifters have is that two of their three Epic shifting feats require the use of other Epic feats to obtain at a reasonable level.
To obtain Dragonshape at level 39 (last possible chance), a shifter has to start the game at WIS 18 (highest I could start at at char creation last night), and bump that by 12 points before level 39. 9 stat points can come from level-ups, but the other have to come from Great Wis feats. A shifter gets 7 Epic feats. At a minimum, 3 have to be Great Wis... plus one more for Dragonshape. If a shifter wants maximum versatility, and takes Construct and Undead Shapes, that leaves only *ONE* feat free. It could be that I was making some sort of mistake yesterday, and you can start at WIS 20 by screwing over all your other stats, but if so, that still leaves only 3 free Epic feats. Fewer if you want Dragonshape earlier.
No other class has a stat requirement higher than 25 for any feat. Unless shifters get some free bonus epic feats (to give them a chance to boost WIS), the WIS requirements need to be lowered a bit...say to 24 and 27.
they get 7 base epic feats, +1 per 3 epic shifter levels. you can start with wis 18, pick up every epic shape and still get dragon by 32.CrazyJ wrote:A shifter gets 7 Epic feats.
an idea here i actually rather like is the idea of turning dire tiger into a travelling shape with increased movement speed.
Maybe my math was wrong?
base 18
At level 28, there have been 7 stat increases gained on levelup. That gives WIS 25. At level 32, you're at WIS 26--still 4 short. Feats at 21, 24, 27, and 30 make up the difference--but leave only 3 Epic feats left. Take two of those for the other Epic Shapes and you have ONE feat left free unless I've missed something.
base 18
At level 28, there have been 7 stat increases gained on levelup. That gives WIS 25. At level 32, you're at WIS 26--still 4 short. Feats at 21, 24, 27, and 30 make up the difference--but leave only 3 Epic feats left. Take two of those for the other Epic Shapes and you have ONE feat left free unless I've missed something.
Your math is right in a way, you only have so many regular epic feats (7), and you only have so many epic bonus feats based on your epic class (6 in the case of Shifter), but together, for a 10 Druid/30 Shifter build, you have a total 13 epic feats to play with, all of which allow Great Wisdom as a selection.
So, 18 base Wisdom + 7 regular by level 28 yields 25 base Wisdom.
Then at 21/24/27, you have regular Epic feats and at 23/26 you have two Epic Shifter feats. So by level 28, if you decide to forgoe Epic shapes, you can take Great Wisdom 5 and have enough Base Wisdom to obtain Dragon Shape by level 29 easy peasy. After that, you can take the rest of the Epic Shapes or whatever.
Either way, the point is it is very easy for a Shifter to qualify for every Epic Shape.
So, 18 base Wisdom + 7 regular by level 28 yields 25 base Wisdom.
Then at 21/24/27, you have regular Epic feats and at 23/26 you have two Epic Shifter feats. So by level 28, if you decide to forgoe Epic shapes, you can take Great Wisdom 5 and have enough Base Wisdom to obtain Dragon Shape by level 29 easy peasy. After that, you can take the rest of the Epic Shapes or whatever.
Either way, the point is it is very easy for a Shifter to qualify for every Epic Shape.
*edit*
Ahhh... I've had so few Epic chars that I never picked up on the epic bonus feat thing.
In that case, all that needs fixing now is the damage for the creatures that don't merge weapons, plus a couple of points of Str to all of the shapes since bracers/gauntlets don't merge. And maybe a point or two of AC, since everyone else gets +3 or +4 per level-quality of gear, while shifters only get +1 or +2.
Ahhh... I've had so few Epic chars that I never picked up on the epic bonus feat thing.
In that case, all that needs fixing now is the damage for the creatures that don't merge weapons, plus a couple of points of Str to all of the shapes since bracers/gauntlets don't merge. And maybe a point or two of AC, since everyone else gets +3 or +4 per level-quality of gear, while shifters only get +1 or +2.