Drow's SR and ECL
Drow's SR and ECL
Having made a Drow in the light that I was making a sacrifice of leveling much slower in exchange for some added bonuses to my character, it has come to my understanding that the Drow SR is useless in NS4. Due to the cap of 32, it becomes all but useless once you start fighting lvl 25+ spellcasters. For those who need an overview, read this:
"# Spell Resistance should be explained so its effect can be better understood so let me see if I can't enlighten those who don't know what it means. Some creatures (like mature dragons, devils, and demons) get a SR rating. It is given as a numeric rating that a spellcaster must overcome to have hopes of having a spell being effective against them. This is regardless of whether or not the spell gets a saving throw normally (and if it does, they still get that saving throw even if SR failed). To penetrate SR, the caster makes a d20 roll + the caster's level versus a DC equal to the SR rating. Spell Penetration adds an additional +2 to the caster's roll. Example: Kurt the Conjurer (level 10) is trying to cast a Fireball against an Old Green Dragon (SR 24). Kurt has Spell Penetration: Evocation, giving him a +2 to penetrate the SR so his total against it will be d20 + 10 (level) + 2 (spell penetration) versus DC 24. He rolls a 12 for a total of 24. Just got it through. Now the Green Dragon still gets a saving throw to take only half-damage from the Fireball and Kurt better hope it fails because it probably isn't going to take too kindly to being singed."
Now my issue is mainly this, why do Drow have such a ridiculous ECL if their main attirbute is so useless in NS4? Sure, they get +2 Cha and Int as well or whatever and Darkness, but that is more of an ECL2 spreadsheet. I hope this isn't taken the wrong way but I would like to see the SR cap raised or the ECL lowered to balance the ledger. I'm not trying to rattle cages here, I'm just putting it out there for consideration.
Drow SR, 32 vs. lvl 25 caster (32 vs. 25+d20 is a continual losing situation). I'm thinking a more reasonable cap would be like 40-45, so that high lvl casters still have a little something to worry about.
Thanks.
"# Spell Resistance should be explained so its effect can be better understood so let me see if I can't enlighten those who don't know what it means. Some creatures (like mature dragons, devils, and demons) get a SR rating. It is given as a numeric rating that a spellcaster must overcome to have hopes of having a spell being effective against them. This is regardless of whether or not the spell gets a saving throw normally (and if it does, they still get that saving throw even if SR failed). To penetrate SR, the caster makes a d20 roll + the caster's level versus a DC equal to the SR rating. Spell Penetration adds an additional +2 to the caster's roll. Example: Kurt the Conjurer (level 10) is trying to cast a Fireball against an Old Green Dragon (SR 24). Kurt has Spell Penetration: Evocation, giving him a +2 to penetrate the SR so his total against it will be d20 + 10 (level) + 2 (spell penetration) versus DC 24. He rolls a 12 for a total of 24. Just got it through. Now the Green Dragon still gets a saving throw to take only half-damage from the Fireball and Kurt better hope it fails because it probably isn't going to take too kindly to being singed."
Now my issue is mainly this, why do Drow have such a ridiculous ECL if their main attirbute is so useless in NS4? Sure, they get +2 Cha and Int as well or whatever and Darkness, but that is more of an ECL2 spreadsheet. I hope this isn't taken the wrong way but I would like to see the SR cap raised or the ECL lowered to balance the ledger. I'm not trying to rattle cages here, I'm just putting it out there for consideration.
Drow SR, 32 vs. lvl 25 caster (32 vs. 25+d20 is a continual losing situation). I'm thinking a more reasonable cap would be like 40-45, so that high lvl casters still have a little something to worry about.
Thanks.
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32 is the highest any unbuffed character can get without substantial levels in monk, so its not useless. Adding that on top of what you yourself said is a ecl 2 spreadsheet is why it earns +3.
Also, adding in that the only class that has the spell SR is cleric, and drow favored class is cleric, I believe the +3 ECL is fair.
Also, adding in that the only class that has the spell SR is cleric, and drow favored class is cleric, I believe the +3 ECL is fair.
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Sorry Rudash, but the favored class cleric doesn't help too much. Sure you get a bonus 2k or so after level 20, but getting there enough is like hell. The base elf's favored class is wizard, so if you make a drow cleric and multiclass, oh man how much you suffer from xp penalty. I'm not blaming the DMs on their no-multiclass penalty idea not working, its just Bioware's update a while back that made it stop working.
Just for a point of reference, not everyone wants to play a Drow Cleric, mine is a Paladin/Monk/CoT. Now, a 32 SR IS useless when you're talking about a reason to hack off experience from each kill. How often does the SR get used in the first 25 levels? In the NC, you fight undead a lot early, then Minos, Ogres, non-Ice Giants, Wolves, Efreet, and so forth. That means you are paying a heavy price for something that is really only used in PvP up until lvl 20-25. I'm not saying I know everything about this server, but this is going by the path I walked. Once the SR becomes useful, it is capped to a point where it is not useful at all because a lvl 25 caster only needs to roll a 7 to beat my SR, and that is if they took NO Penetration feats. I'm not saying we need to make it a 60 or anything, but a heavy XP penalty should be worth a 50% bonus, meaning my SR should work half the time against wizzies around my own level. Just my $.02
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The SR cap of 32 is a toolset limitation, blame bioware not us. The ECL used is the same one referanced just about everywhere when using drow as a subrace.
That being said, just because we have a toolset limitation to SR does not actually make it a hard ceiling. There are ways that the devs can scoot around it. They havent yet simply because there is more than enough on the dev list to last another year or more.
As for ECL, well we arent even considering thinking about looking to make any changes in that department. Not that we dont appreciate peoples opinions and comments, just that there are some things that were set in stone long ago. ECL happens to be one of those.
That being said, just because we have a toolset limitation to SR does not actually make it a hard ceiling. There are ways that the devs can scoot around it. They havent yet simply because there is more than enough on the dev list to last another year or more.
As for ECL, well we arent even considering thinking about looking to make any changes in that department. Not that we dont appreciate peoples opinions and comments, just that there are some things that were set in stone long ago. ECL happens to be one of those.
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It is also my understanding that the Drow SR (actually capped at 30) is not capped on purpose. Theoretically, a lvl 40 drow should have an SR of 50 (10 + 4 / 4 lvls = 50 at lvl 40).
Supposedly fixing that cap is "being worked on" but honestly, its been that way for a long time and I don't see why it is so hard to fix. Just give us a hidden item with a permanent spell effect or something?
Maybe if we were given an explenation on why it is difficult, we could understand and be patient instead of hearing the same old "the devs have a long list" argument. I think that's well established but we're not children who need the facts and details behind a situation hidden from us for our own safety...
Oh, and could we at least make Drow who are of sufficient level to be exceeding the SR cap immune to the SR loss from dispel and mords? My Drow wizard is lvl 34 so I should have a 42 SR but it's currently stuck at 30. However, my SR is still effected by Mords/Dispel even though I'm already being penalized 12 points due to this bug.
Supposedly fixing that cap is "being worked on" but honestly, its been that way for a long time and I don't see why it is so hard to fix. Just give us a hidden item with a permanent spell effect or something?
Maybe if we were given an explenation on why it is difficult, we could understand and be patient instead of hearing the same old "the devs have a long list" argument. I think that's well established but we're not children who need the facts and details behind a situation hidden from us for our own safety...
Oh, and could we at least make Drow who are of sufficient level to be exceeding the SR cap immune to the SR loss from dispel and mords? My Drow wizard is lvl 34 so I should have a 42 SR but it's currently stuck at 30. However, my SR is still effected by Mords/Dispel even though I'm already being penalized 12 points due to this bug.
Not to be rude, but when in beta, the dev list is exactly the controlling attribute that is the overriding factor in nearly everything. Its not for the protection of children that the how-to's are going to be accomplished, but rather its not worth the effort in going through a step by step of the 2 ways I am aware of to fix it. If you think that its just a simple toolset fix, feel free to try your hand at it and see where the toolset limitations leave you.
The dev list is not an excuse, but a fact. If it is unacceptable to anyone ... let me extend an invitation to the world to you. Just because our priorities dont match up with your priorites does not make for a valid argument. There are constantly things going on for the devs who are overworked as it is for being on a volunteer basis, asking them to take time out of that to explain every single little thing is simply wasteful, and the 2 year olds "but why" just makes us a bit more closed mouth in the long run.
Have a nice day.
The dev list is not an excuse, but a fact. If it is unacceptable to anyone ... let me extend an invitation to the world to you. Just because our priorities dont match up with your priorites does not make for a valid argument. There are constantly things going on for the devs who are overworked as it is for being on a volunteer basis, asking them to take time out of that to explain every single little thing is simply wasteful, and the 2 year olds "but why" just makes us a bit more closed mouth in the long run.
Have a nice day.
Yeah, Drow has ecl of 3 for several reasons. No negative stats. DARKNESS (which can be worked, even without really cheesing, very effectively to let a toon kill stuff he has no real business fighting) and that lovely little bit of SR. Having inherent SR early on is sweet action. Suddenly that cloud effect spell is laughable. Suddenly ranged dmg spells from beetles or others things ping off of you. And even at higher levels, 32 innate SR is not to be scoffed at. Ask pretty much any caster, and they'll tell you it's the low but non-negligible SR's that are really annoying. "Sure, he shouldn't have saved versus that Bigsby, but damnit, he did, and now I'm dead."
Additionally, in a world where any sane Sorcerer or Wizard will open with a Mord's Disjunction barrage, even a cleric's fat SR from the spell begins to erode. If you really want to min-max it, Drow is one of the classes for you. Play a caster cleric, and laugh when people throw MDJ's at you and you still sit there with some innate SR. Sure, you're not a wisdom monk who took as many SR feats as he could, but leveling that monster is going to be WAY harder than the Drow.
But hey, I might be biased, I still think Drow should melt when they're out during the day, or at least have to take a feat for it.
Additionally, in a world where any sane Sorcerer or Wizard will open with a Mord's Disjunction barrage, even a cleric's fat SR from the spell begins to erode. If you really want to min-max it, Drow is one of the classes for you. Play a caster cleric, and laugh when people throw MDJ's at you and you still sit there with some innate SR. Sure, you're not a wisdom monk who took as many SR feats as he could, but leveling that monster is going to be WAY harder than the Drow.
But hey, I might be biased, I still think Drow should melt when they're out during the day, or at least have to take a feat for it.
Hey guys I'm not trying to get a war started here. This is the Ideas & Suggestions section so I figured I would put it out there. No reason to get all worked up over it, as it may get fixed when you least expect it.
Rage, the Drow have a neg attribute just wanted to put that out there.
Well, since we cannot fix this right now, do Monk SR feats stack with the Drow SR? In other words is 32 the absolute limit for this?
Rage, the Drow have a neg attribute just wanted to put that out there.
Well, since we cannot fix this right now, do Monk SR feats stack with the Drow SR? In other words is 32 the absolute limit for this?
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TGPO wrote:Not to be rude, but when in beta, the dev list is exactly the controlling attribute that is the overriding factor in nearly everything. Its not for the protection of children that the how-to's are going to be accomplished, but rather its not worth the effort in going through a step by step of the 2 ways I am aware of to fix it. If you think that its just a simple toolset fix, feel free to try your hand at it and see where the toolset limitations leave you.
The dev list is not an excuse, but a fact. If it is unacceptable to anyone ... let me extend an invitation to the world to you. Just because our priorities dont match up with your priorites does not make for a valid argument. There are constantly things going on for the devs who are overworked as it is for being on a volunteer basis, asking them to take time out of that to explain every single little thing is simply wasteful, and the 2 year olds "but why" just makes us a bit more closed mouth in the long run.
Have a nice day.
This is exactly why you'll never get any good suggestions on the board. Every response is always the same -- useless.
Please accept my apologies for TGPO's post Sightbringer!
Please send me your very own personal wish-list the specific changes you would like me to start coding and I shall make it so immediately.
While I'm doing it how about you date my sister?
Please send me your very own personal wish-list the specific changes you would like me to start coding and I shall make it so immediately.
While I'm doing it how about you date my sister?
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