Crafting System Feedback

[satantrik]

First, this post is about the "progressive crafting skills" and not the potion/scroll crafting system.

I've played with the crafting system enough to, I feel, put out some constructive feedback on it. Currently I have three characters who are working on mastering Martial Weapon, Exotic Weapon, and Armor crafting. They all have fighter levels.

My first suggestion is a simple documentation request. The docs for crafting state that "only fighters can attain Artisan and above" and similar for other crafting skills. In-game it states that the minimum level for certain crafting skill levels are x. All three of my characters have attained level x or above and can't rise above Master Craftsman. Apparently (noone I talked to seemed really sure) the level requirement is your qualifying class level, the sum of all of your qualifying class levels, your total character level if the highest level class you have qualifies, or something else - noone really knew. If we could get a clear statement on what the requirements are now, that would be great!

I'm going to collect my thoughts on the crafting system here and offer some suggestions as I go through them.

Currently someone can't even touch a craft skill unless they have a 10 (WITH buffs/items) in Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Wisdom. While I understand the intent behind this and it makes sense, it doesn't really accomplish anything but put off crafting until level 5 for most people. This is when you get your first +2 ability score items, offsetting any 8's that may exist. 6's being rare: half-orcs, halflings, and gnomes may have to wait longer if they don't have buffing spells or buffing friends with them.

Just remove this requirement. It eventually becomes meaningless and allowing all characters access to crafting irregarless of ability scores may cause crafted items to see more action in Aetheria as opposed to having people finally getting around to crafting those level 1, 5, and 9+ items at level 13+.

Outside this ability score requirement access to crafting skills is dependent on character level and class/es. The various restrictions are documented <a href="http://www.nsrealm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1247">here</a> in the official doc, and even then there are some undocumented restrictions (see above).

Again, I understand the point of the restrictions, but crafting is simply another way to acquire items apart from buying/acquiring from shops/NPCs, trading/buying from players, and looting from mobs. Restricting certain classes from attaining the highest levels of crafting is like preventing access to a certain area where mobs that drop certain items appear based on class or preventing certain classes from shopping at certain stores, etc.

Here's my suggestion for a total rewrite for the system of restrictions and requirements:

Armor: Shield Proficiency feat required to craft shields. Heavy Armor Proficiency required to craft the heavy armors. Add suits of medium armor to this craft skill that will then require Medium Armor Proficiency feat to craft. Access to helms and bracers will be the very least someone with no armor proficiencies can attain before they can invest more feats or the appropriate class levels into expanding their use of this craft skill. Also, no craft skill creates medium armor. This will give something for the barbarian to craft and something else for the ranger to (especially a melee-ranger), for example.

Martial Weapons: Weapon Proficiency: Druid, Elf, Martial, Monk, Rogue, Simple, OR Wizard. Any of these weapon proficiencies should allow use of the simplest weapon crafting skill. The restriction being that one can only craft a weapon one is proficient in. Those proficient with both simple and martial weapons will be able to craft any of the weapons available to this skill, while those with limited proficiency or only one of simple or martial can still craft, but at a limited capacity. As an aside, the official doc says that this creates simple weapons, but last I checked it only creates martial weapons.

Exotic Weapons: Weapon Proficiency: Exotic OR Monk. As with my suggestions for the other weapon crafting skill, access to the full compliment of weapons depends on feats. So while a monk can craft kamas and shurikens, a full-fledged exotic weapon user can craft anything available to this skill.

Fletching: As with my suggestions for the other weapon crafting skills, access to crossbows and/or bows depends on weapon proficiency feats. Those with both simple and martial weapon proficiency can craft it all, but those with limited proficiency can still get some mileage out of this skill. As far as I know the sling can't be crafted, put it here with the rest of the ranged weapons and its appropriate ammunition - it'll allow sling specialists to consolidate their resources. Also, allow anyone to craft any of the ammunition and remove the Master Artisan timer completely for ammo - missile weapon users already pay twice, why have them wait twice?

Leather: As with armor crafting, require Light Armor Proficiency to craft the leather. Also make available more different types of light armor for this skill. Those with no armor proficiency can access the various other items available to this skill.

Arcane Crafting: I haven't much examined this personally, but a more diverse and unique selection of spells on the items has been a common request I've heard. Any arcane casting ability: bard, sorceror, or wizard should have access to this skill.

Tailoring: Should be a catchall crafting skill that anyone can take and master.

This is how I would limit the crafting levels: you get 1 level of crafting skill to invest per 3 character levels. Level 1-3: 1; 4-6: 2; 7-9: 3; 10-12: 4; 13-15: 5; 16-18: 6; 19-21: 7; etc. Allow multiple crafting skills, but only a total number of points invested equal to the above equation. Yes, that means at level 40, one could potentially be a Master Artisan at two crafting skills and a level 2/journeyman at one...or many other combinations. The removal of crafting skill levels can be done within the already existing dialog system simple enough. Losing a level should free up a level to put somwhere else, but the xp invested is gone forever.

Here are my more drastic suggestions:

Add a crafting skill call "Jeweler" or similar. A jeweler can create various kind of rings, amulets, maybe even certain other items such as helms and belts. Level 9+ rings that +2 to two skills, level 5+ rings that add +4 to one skill, but subtracts 2 from another skill. Rings that add proficiency in weapons and armor would be interesting, too. This, like tailoring, would be a tradeskill that anyone could invest points in.

Change the weapons and armor in some way to make them an alternative choice to the current store-bought items. Presently the weapons and armor are the "poor cousins" of the ones in the stores. One idea may be to scale back to the damage and raise the AB/enhancement on crafted weapons:

Crafted Iron: +1 damage, +1 AB (not enhancement, only bonus to hit), +1 crit
MW Iron: +1d4 damage, +1d4 crit

Crafted Steel: +1d4 damage, +1 AB, +1d4 crit
Enhanced Steel: +1d6 damage, +1d6 crit

Crafted Enchanted Steel: +1d4 damage, +2 enhancement, +1d4 crit
Enchanted Steel: +1d8 damage, +1 enhancement, +1d8 crit

Crafted Enchanted Mithril: +1d6 damage, +3 enhancement, +1d6 crit
Enchanted Mithril: +1d10 damage, +2 enhancement, +1d10 crit

This would be enough, in my opinion, to create some tactical decisions on the player's part on what weapons to buy/craft/trade for based on their build and situation.

Any feedback or thoughts??

[AlienOverlord]

I agree that the weapons don't match the ones you can buy at the store and so it seems that crafting only becomes useful once you get to items that cannot be bought in store (above 13th level). This seems a waste. I agree that making them different than the store items would add more interest so long as they are comparable in usefulness (if anything, the crafted items should be better not worse).

I also agree that the stat reqs don't do a whole lot, but I don't mind them. I think if the reqs went higher it might be interesting as even though people would build crafters they would need to balance those crafters to level up past 13th. We need a better trading system among players though.

I also agree that the limits on some classes makes it pointless for those classes to craft at all, like clerics. Since the crafted items are inferior to store bought, there is no pint unless you can craft 13+ items.

[HealingBreeze]

Overall, I like the ideas you have, though I think perhaps the crafted items should be a bit stronger that you've suggested, seeing as they were made by you, you know all of their nuances and how to use them best.

Also, I agree with your point about removing the stat requirements to craft, because as you said, it does eventually become pointless when you can just grab some +4 equipment (in the worst cases) and they're gone.

Another thing, maybe slings should fall under the leather-working skill or simple weaponry, seeing as they have nothing to do with fletching in a traditional sense...other than the fact that they allow ranged attacks. Besides, who really uses slings other than melee characters?

Finally, I like the idea about crafting level 'investment' rather than the current 'Choose One' system; it never really made sense to me from a lore standpoint why one could only know one trade at a time.

[Kaz]

I would tend to agree. Quite a few blacksmiths knew how to make weapons and armor. If the player wants to spend more XP, let them. Also, the no crafting advance for certain classes seems pretty harsh. Perhaps give them a higher xp price to advance, making it a more painful journey, but no ruling it out for those that really want to.

[satantrik]

Here are a couple more ideas I had for more crafting skills:

Herbalism.

Requires: Ability to cast Druid or Ranger spells.

Item types: Various "miscellaneous" items that cast spells that are use-once. Such as an herb that casts cure disease, cure blindness/deafness, clarity, and other status removing effects. Some higher level herbs can cast multiple buffing effects all at once, like the spell-storing items from NWN.

"Rogue-crafting" or similar.

Requires: Sneak attack +1d6 or higher.

Item types: Thief tools. Poisons. Perhaps even a special selection of weapons from the rogue weapon prof. set that have very different modifiers, such as bonus to hit with on hit: daze, poison, or disease effects.

Any other ideas out there?

[AlienOverlord]

Some people are complaining that melee and dex fighters can't compete, maybe fighters could craft better stuff? Rangers could craft better bows? I like rogues and assassins being able to craft poison. Monks could craft better monk gear. If this was done you should be able to invest in only one skill, so the fighter only gets good weapons or armour not both. Things like fire damage on weapons for fighters to beat resistances.