Weird.. make it like a crappy version of Wail of the Banshee

[Old-Sire]

Who's brilliant idea was it to change weird to read like level 9 version of phantasmal killer.

I've been using weird and I know it is a recent change, oddly no other spells have had their text altered, IGMS for example still reads like the original text. Web DC remains unchanged and same for pretty much every other major spell exploit. There are very few areas that don't stand against it to be exploitable.

I don't see how this is a beneficial or balancing change simply due to the fact that it takes a great deal of spell specialisations to get the most out of a single spell. These spells "still" have the "all or nothing" effect of other spells like Wail or Flesh to Stone. Illusion spells focus against mind saves, not fort and to alter that makes the illusion version of Wail, pointless. Not to mention leaves no alternative for a death spell caster to use against high fortitude character classes at epic.

Feedback appreciated..

[Denort]

If I recall correctly, Wierd has always had 2 saves, a will save to disbelieve the illusion and if that fails a fortitude save to avoid death. The advantage Wierd has over Wail is Wierd has can kill unlimited targets in the area of effect where as Wail can only kill 1 per caster level.

[Old-Sire]

My mistake, I guess I should have posted the "precise" text of core Weird:

"a horrible phantasm rises to stand before enemy creature causing them
to make a will save or die. Those that succeed must then make a fortitude save or take 3D6 points of damage."

The spell read like this up until "just" recently and I've seen the "will save vs death" text come up in my battle log prior to the text alteration.

The new weird reads:

"A horrible phantasm rises to stand before the creatures in the area of effect causing them to make a will save. If they fail, the phantasm touches
them and they must now make a fortitude saving throw. if this saving throw fails, the creature dies. those who succeed the fortitude save still
take 3d6 points of damage."

[Bob]

Yep - it's stock.

The unlimited # of kills isn't much compensation for that second save though... trying to think of an instance where I've had more than 15 targets in the appropriate AoE for Wail.

Illusion might be a more interesting school to focus in if the saving throws for Wierd & maybe Phant. Killer took, say, half the amount you failed the Will save by and applied it as a penalty to the Fort save (ie - you fail by 10, so you take the Fort save with a -5 penalty).

Would be nice to have a viable option other than Evocation and Necromancy.

[Old-Sire]

Think level 9 spell here.

Fact of the matter is that at the appropriate level you are to cast Weird or Wail, you aren't fighting goblins anymore, the mix and match of actually difficult opponents makes your spell choices vital. I will NEVER use weird the way it is now, which is unfortunate because I took the focus feats for illusion.

Unless you can make this spell stronger than or on the same power level of maximised IGMS there's no point in using it. Across the board I've yet to find anything my level to gain experience off of that has less than 25-31 fort save against the best DC of 34. We aren't even bringing spell resistance into play..

[JesterOI]

Like 1target/casterlevel isn't pratically unlimited.
You're what? level 17 when you can get that spell. 17 targets as soon as you get it, like that hinders the spell at all.

[OneManArmy]

Wail of the bansee is now acting ... Wierd too heh

It happens that a creature dont even bother to make the save roll and wail have no effect on it. I cast it 5 times on the same target, and no fort roll showed in the chat box and of course my target did not die. I had this confirmed by others spellcasters using Wail.

[Old-Sire]

I haven't encountered any problems with Wail yet, and I'm using it exclusively now it seems..

Two possibilities: mis targetting in lag (what you're trying to kill isn't where it seems) or spell resistance/immunity.

I will keep an eye out for that.

[Denort]

I never implied that the restriction of one target per level was good or not, just explained the difference between the two spells. That brings up a good point though, perhaps Wail is one of those spells that needs to be altered from 1 per level to 1 per X levels. At one per 4 levels it still kills 4 creatures when you first get the spell and will max out at 10 creatures. High enough to be useful, but low enough to make Wierd's unlimited targets a bit more appealing.

[OneManArmy]

I had the Wail's issue yesterday in RK. they r not immune to death and in the chat log they were no text about spell resisted or not ... for misstargeting, that what i tought in first, but then i did a test by targeting the NPC directly and not casting Wail to touched a max of mobs.

Anyway, today its working again normal as far as i played.

[JesterOI]

After your first casting of wail try examining the living creatures that were hit, I bet they are deafened.
Wail now deafens creatures for a few rounds that save against the spell.
And a deafened creature can't be kill by the wail of the banshee if they can't hear it.

[DrakhanValane]

Changing Spell Text requires a hak. So it is quite impossible for the devs to have changed that. Weird has always been a will and a fort save. Bio fixed the text a few patches back to be in line with the actual mechanics of the spell.

[IcemanXV]

Changing Spell Text requires a hak. So it is quite impossible for the devs to have changed that. Weird has always been a will and a fort save. Bio fixed the text a few patches back to be in line with the actual mechanics of the spell.

As far as I know spell text requires a new Dialog.tlk file, not a hak. You just create the new tlk file and make it a custom one for that server. Players do not need to muck with their system to see it.

[Knightwing4]

After your first casting of wail try examining the living creatures that were hit, I bet they are deafened.
Wail now deafens creatures for a few rounds that save against the spell.
And a deafened creature can't be kill by the wail of the banshee if they can't hear it.

Yes, so of the 2 nerfed spells (wail can only be cast once), weird might be a better choice because it can be cast unlimited times on the same group while you can't with wail

[DrakhanValane]

Actually, the tlk files are read locally. You have to put the tlk file in a hak for players to see text changes. Besides, the description is the same in Single Player.