The bad thing is that it may start out as 1%, but inevitably the problem grows. The other night, a player got ganked by an impossible-rated character then spent the rest of the evening killing effortless characters & shouting that if they didn't like it, they should complain on the forums about the player who had killed him originally.
The problem with having non-PvP factions is that it's so easy to abuse. Kill-stealing, monster leading, invulnerable PvP healers, invulnerable scouts, town raiders that can only be killed by spawn, etc...
When Noobs attack lol... my solution }: )
Hi
As a new player (entered this world yesterday) I do not mind being killed by other players as it is part of the history of NS. It would definitly make me mad if an owerpowering person from an enemy fraction killed me in my own territory on sight but it would also increase my motivation to gain more seasones to be able to defend myself and my territory.
The PvP and fraction wars is making this world more interessting as not all quests and enemys are scripted and thereby predictable. I would not kill anyone on sight myself but rather welcome newcomers and visitors to Melencia as I am playing a lawful good druid. But I would not mind attacking other players who arrive in Melancia and attack our animals wildly but would first try to tell lower level characters to leave before attacking. (I am a lowlevel and have not met anyone lower than myself
)
I would not as a new character enter chaotic fractions populated with evil characters and complain if some of them decided to make sport of me. I could as well stay away or assamble a large party before entering enemy territory.
To remove PvP would destroy what this world is about and new players should be warned about what territories to stay away from. (The Fraction information and such is missing from the homepage but I have read elsewhere that they are working on the documentation
)
But I have only played here for a few hours and have not met the infamous PK's yet
Those I have met from other fractions have been friendly and helpful and I am convinced I will spend allot of time in this world and look forward to see it when it is finished.
As a new player (entered this world yesterday) I do not mind being killed by other players as it is part of the history of NS. It would definitly make me mad if an owerpowering person from an enemy fraction killed me in my own territory on sight but it would also increase my motivation to gain more seasones to be able to defend myself and my territory.
The PvP and fraction wars is making this world more interessting as not all quests and enemys are scripted and thereby predictable. I would not kill anyone on sight myself but rather welcome newcomers and visitors to Melencia as I am playing a lawful good druid. But I would not mind attacking other players who arrive in Melancia and attack our animals wildly but would first try to tell lower level characters to leave before attacking. (I am a lowlevel and have not met anyone lower than myself
)I would not as a new character enter chaotic fractions populated with evil characters and complain if some of them decided to make sport of me. I could as well stay away or assamble a large party before entering enemy territory.
To remove PvP would destroy what this world is about and new players should be warned about what territories to stay away from. (The Fraction information and such is missing from the homepage but I have read elsewhere that they are working on the documentation
)But I have only played here for a few hours and have not met the infamous PK's yet
Those I have met from other fractions have been friendly and helpful and I am convinced I will spend allot of time in this world and look forward to see it when it is finished.
Agreed occasional NOOB kills by higher levels is just part of the game BUT...
Perhaps the developers need to establish an XP multiplier defense bonus for areas immediately around their faction's home base to encourage higher level players to defend their home -- AND incidentally their faction NOOBs.
So far the biggest problem I see with the faction wars is that higher level players spend all their time AWAY from their home base -- mostly raiding other faction bases.
NOT realistic and sometimes not fun. I have seen some high level players camp out and spend an hour or more in opposing towns killing off everything...including NOOBs like myself who don't run fast enough.
Sure they would also need some method of faster return available to high level players of that faction only (the old AD&D had communication spells and clerical spells of Return)
Perhaps the developers need to establish an XP multiplier defense bonus for areas immediately around their faction's home base to encourage higher level players to defend their home -- AND incidentally their faction NOOBs.
So far the biggest problem I see with the faction wars is that higher level players spend all their time AWAY from their home base -- mostly raiding other faction bases.
NOT realistic and sometimes not fun. I have seen some high level players camp out and spend an hour or more in opposing towns killing off everything...including NOOBs like myself who don't run fast enough.
Sure they would also need some method of faster return available to high level players of that faction only (the old AD&D had communication spells and clerical spells of Return)
The only problems with the accidental Noob PKs is that the noobs are too curious to stay back. I primarily play a druid now who uses many area effect spells. I use spells like stonehold and vine mine and storm of vengeance. Then the noobs have the audacity to complain about me PKing them when its their fault for running into the AOE.
They even freak out when they get stoneheld/stunned/entangled as if that effect wouldn't work on them as they ran right through the middle of it.
I think somehow the game mechanics need to be explained to the newer players in more detail. There's not much we can do with someone who doesn't know NWN. However explaining just how NS4 works would help. Just because you see someone hostile in your town does not mean you need to attack them.
Main rule: If you see a very shiny player with cool weapons and armor and magical effects all about, and your cursor turns to a sword when over to them...STAY OUT OF THE WAY!
All is fair in love and war. Stay back if you don't want to be part of the casualties of war.
They even freak out when they get stoneheld/stunned/entangled as if that effect wouldn't work on them as they ran right through the middle of it.
I think somehow the game mechanics need to be explained to the newer players in more detail. There's not much we can do with someone who doesn't know NWN. However explaining just how NS4 works would help. Just because you see someone hostile in your town does not mean you need to attack them.
Main rule: If you see a very shiny player with cool weapons and armor and magical effects all about, and your cursor turns to a sword when over to them...STAY OUT OF THE WAY!
All is fair in love and war. Stay back if you don't want to be part of the casualties of war.
I see no problem myself with truly accidental NOOB PKs.
Even when they aren't being boneheads -- but remember sometimes NOOBs are being chased OR don't see your high level character until too late. Oh and what is the difference between the appearance of your high level player characters and many of the area NPCs? Not always quickly and easily seen.
Oh and don't think the accidents are always the fault of the NOOBs. I've been on the receiving end of a few trigger happy higher level spells where the higher level goes "Ooops!" after the fact. Again those are OK PKs for the most part -- especially as a few higher levels have forgiven my trigger happiness at times (at least when I didn't scratch them).
Even when they aren't being boneheads -- but remember sometimes NOOBs are being chased OR don't see your high level character until too late. Oh and what is the difference between the appearance of your high level player characters and many of the area NPCs? Not always quickly and easily seen.
Oh and don't think the accidents are always the fault of the NOOBs. I've been on the receiving end of a few trigger happy higher level spells where the higher level goes "Ooops!" after the fact. Again those are OK PKs for the most part -- especially as a few higher levels have forgiven my trigger happiness at times (at least when I didn't scratch them).
NPC's aren't hostile to you in your own faction, so... Neutral NPCs and PCs can be told apart by their names in green and blue over their heads, respectively.Mortree wrote:Oh and what is the difference between the appearance of your high level player characters and many of the area NPCs? Not always quickly and easily seen.
You were probably thinking in the narrow context of encounters in town or guarded areas. So you appear to missed my point about what happens out in the wild and wooly areas when a HOSTILE humaniod is seen.
BETTER advice to NOOBs is RUN from any in town fights as they are over your head.
What you said is helpful only if the PCs and NPCs aren't HOSTILE. That is great if you are in your home faction area or allied. And in fact if there is no ongoing invasion your advice isn't that useful as there is no one to attack.
Quite a few of the complaints either way are about quick draw encounters in the wild where (esp a NOOB) initiates a accidental PvP by blasting before knowing it is a hostile (but not necessarily aggressive) PC. Quite a few High level PCs have unforgiving tempers or to be honest are just looking for an excuse.
BETTER advice to NOOBs is RUN from any in town fights as they are over your head.
What you said is helpful only if the PCs and NPCs aren't HOSTILE. That is great if you are in your home faction area or allied. And in fact if there is no ongoing invasion your advice isn't that useful as there is no one to attack.
Quite a few of the complaints either way are about quick draw encounters in the wild where (esp a NOOB) initiates a accidental PvP by blasting before knowing it is a hostile (but not necessarily aggressive) PC. Quite a few High level PCs have unforgiving tempers or to be honest are just looking for an excuse.
Somewhat. As far as I knew there aren't NPCs with such retarded names as sexy gimps or whatever is cool to kids these days.
Fact is, can't be avoided. Like i said, best way is to explain NS4 faction mechanics better to noobs so they understand they are fresh meat when outside of their city limits.
Also the best advice: Examine your enemy before fighting
Fact is, can't be avoided. Like i said, best way is to explain NS4 faction mechanics better to noobs so they understand they are fresh meat when outside of their city limits.
Also the best advice: Examine your enemy before fighting
100% agree it is going to happen whereever NOOBs and high level overlap.
Probably the biggest problem is GUARD XPs lure high level opponents into oppposite faction cities and near city areas. Many intruders use summons and familars and companions...and such fights are notoriously hard to end without NOOB death.
NOOBs need to fight sometime to graduate from being a NOOB. And by the time NOOBs recognize every normal area monster/NPC by sight they are either next level needing a new area or bored spitless.
"Examine your enemy" just exchanges one problem for another since NOOBs often press the limit of monsters/NPC they can conquer -- almost by definition of NOOB. First strike or "cutting one out of the pack" is often the only way to succeed. If you pause you die.
The only real solution, limited as it is, is better and clearer separation of areas of interest to NOOBs and high levels -- and paths between those areas. Maybe few a more "road signs" (debris, monster types, actual direction signs).
Probably the biggest problem is GUARD XPs lure high level opponents into oppposite faction cities and near city areas. Many intruders use summons and familars and companions...and such fights are notoriously hard to end without NOOB death.
NOOBs need to fight sometime to graduate from being a NOOB. And by the time NOOBs recognize every normal area monster/NPC by sight they are either next level needing a new area or bored spitless.
"Examine your enemy" just exchanges one problem for another since NOOBs often press the limit of monsters/NPC they can conquer -- almost by definition of NOOB. First strike or "cutting one out of the pack" is often the only way to succeed. If you pause you die.
The only real solution, limited as it is, is better and clearer separation of areas of interest to NOOBs and high levels -- and paths between those areas. Maybe few a more "road signs" (debris, monster types, actual direction signs).
Last edited by Mortree on Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Actually there is one other solution if the builders want to make interesting but complex jobs in the future...
assign high level characters the JOB of escorting/guiding low levels from place to place with bonuses and penalties for NOOBs delivered/lost. The job might/might not also need a penalty for excessive deviation from a route (job includes an area list for acceptable paths) or excessive time (the really difficult one to randomly generate). NOTE: in this case your "look first" or even a "wait until I attack or you attacked" rule is totally realistic given the buffering and raise dead potentials of a high level escort.
In this case NOOBs will gain some side by side XPs in a structured setting. Higher level types would also need the right of refusal for idiots that refuse to obey the rules and stick to their place in combat...or set a higher fee/bond to join the party (post some XPs even?). It might be fun to see a few higher levels running around like "mom" trying to save NOOBs from their own mistakes rather than just implusively "putting them out of their misery".
Sure GMs can do stuff live to help. But there is a real shortage of GM manhours and field of vision. Thorough oversight is a huge job -- especially with the "wolf calls". In the long run I think 5-10% of GM time for policing routine PvP issues should be tops. It is seldom fun for them I'd think. Hopefully a few brillant and fairly simple ideas can be GMed to prove new level separation/cooperation concepts then automated to reduce friction.
I doubt the problem will ever go away completely but it would be nice to see it capped at a low level while still allowing the full realistic PvP.
assign high level characters the JOB of escorting/guiding low levels from place to place with bonuses and penalties for NOOBs delivered/lost. The job might/might not also need a penalty for excessive deviation from a route (job includes an area list for acceptable paths) or excessive time (the really difficult one to randomly generate). NOTE: in this case your "look first" or even a "wait until I attack or you attacked" rule is totally realistic given the buffering and raise dead potentials of a high level escort.
In this case NOOBs will gain some side by side XPs in a structured setting. Higher level types would also need the right of refusal for idiots that refuse to obey the rules and stick to their place in combat...or set a higher fee/bond to join the party (post some XPs even?). It might be fun to see a few higher levels running around like "mom" trying to save NOOBs from their own mistakes rather than just implusively "putting them out of their misery".
Sure GMs can do stuff live to help. But there is a real shortage of GM manhours and field of vision. Thorough oversight is a huge job -- especially with the "wolf calls". In the long run I think 5-10% of GM time for policing routine PvP issues should be tops. It is seldom fun for them I'd think. Hopefully a few brillant and fairly simple ideas can be GMed to prove new level separation/cooperation concepts then automated to reduce friction.
I doubt the problem will ever go away completely but it would be nice to see it capped at a low level while still allowing the full realistic PvP.
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Kell Of Neversummer
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How do you solve this problem?
I was in the Inn of the Half Eaten Goat and left it. I was doa on arrival in the mercantile district (the area you transition to when you leave the inn) because somebody cast an AOE that killed me during the transition. No chance to run away and no way to know that the fight was going on.
I was in the Inn of the Half Eaten Goat and left it. I was doa on arrival in the mercantile district (the area you transition to when you leave the inn) because somebody cast an AOE that killed me during the transition. No chance to run away and no way to know that the fight was going on.
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Brennan068
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That's a situation where you either politely ask for a res, or suck it up and respawn. It happens. I do transitions with my summons and sometimes, they get there first and attack without my permission. I call them off when possible, res when not. It happens. It is not malicious most of the time; it is just a fact of life on these servers with hostiles at uncontrollable areas.
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Kell Of Neversummer
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Getting killed again in a raid etc is realistic. Normally it ain't that bad unless it is malicious.
In this case you knew who caused you to be killed. So just use messaging to ask them when they are leaving the area immediately outside (tell them that you want to simulate listening at the door). Normally this is only a few minutes. Then you can get outside and start dodging around and keep your distance.
On the other hand I've seen servers where the guards were set to kill all summons, familiars, and companions in town -- regardless of your personal faction. Now this might normally be fine if it weren't for the fact that the guard vs summons/familar/companion fight also changes your character & party standing versus the guards. I mean normally you don't need them in town. But then there are darn city raids that your might want to participate in or be forced to participate in. Some characters would be very crippled if the guards continued to enforce pet control during a raid.
In this case you knew who caused you to be killed. So just use messaging to ask them when they are leaving the area immediately outside (tell them that you want to simulate listening at the door). Normally this is only a few minutes. Then you can get outside and start dodging around and keep your distance.
On the other hand I've seen servers where the guards were set to kill all summons, familiars, and companions in town -- regardless of your personal faction. Now this might normally be fine if it weren't for the fact that the guard vs summons/familar/companion fight also changes your character & party standing versus the guards. I mean normally you don't need them in town. But then there are darn city raids that your might want to participate in or be forced to participate in. Some characters would be very crippled if the guards continued to enforce pet control during a raid.
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Kell Of Neversummer
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