Balancing weapons better

[Thanos]

I think the weapon bonus you add to weapons should be changed to better balance them. all 16 level weapons usually have an extra 3d6 damage of various types. A small weapon like Kuri has the same bonus as a 2 handed sword in extra damage. Because you have made the bonus standard on all weapons it reduces the value of the 2 handed weapons. If you take a 16th level [censored] sword 1d10 + 3d6 28 max damage and compare it to a great sword 1d12 + 3d6 30 max damage. There would be no point in using a 2 handed sword since 2 extra damage dosen't make up the difference in a shield. Even a long sword only does 4 less max damage.

I would like to see weapons broken into 3 groups.

Light weapons like dagger, Short swords and Mace would have the standard 3d6 bonus.

Medium weapons like longs sword, [censored] sword, and war hammer would get 3d8 bonus.

Heavy weapons that require 2 hands like great sword, great axe, and heavy flail would get a bonus of 3d10.


Now a [censored] sword would be 1d10 + 3d8=34 max damage and a great sword would be 1d12 + 3d10= 42 max damage.

if you take a 0 level [censored] sword max damage and divide it by a the max damage a great sword does you get 10/12=83%

Take Current 16 level [censored] and great sword you get 28/30=93%

Now take my new damage bonus from above 34/42=81%

You have returned the games origonal balance back to the weapons.

Something to think about

[AndrewCarr]

I'd keep crit dmg in mind. I know ppl have done weapon testing on the bioware forums, and maybe this could be repeated to get a somewhat accurate feel for each weapon's dmg amount.

[Thanos]

I'd keep crit dmg in mind. I know ppl have done weapon testing on the bioware forums, and maybe this could be repeated to get a somewhat accurate feel for each weapon's dmg amount.

The example I gave above has exact same crit chance and damage bonus. There is only 2 weapons I can think of that is out side the standard crit chance and damage multiplier. The scythe and the dwarven war axe. Those 2 weapons could be adjusted by the developers. Instead of giving them the 3d10 or 3d8 damage bonus. Knock them down 1 class and make it 3d8 and 3d6 and that should help make up for the extra mutiplier they each have.

[Hieroneus Maxim]

Don't forget that 2-handed weapons use 1.5xstrength modifier for the extra damage granted by strength. If you have, say 26 strength, that's another +4 damage for the greatsword.

However, I do agree that a kukri's extra slashing damage shouldn't be as much as greatswords extra slashing damage. I think giving bonuses based on light/medium/large is good.

[Thanos]

+4 extra damage dosen't mean much when you add +18 damage to ev ery weapon. Even if you factor in 26 str the % above would be different but it stills shows a trend that the current damage bonus decreases the usefullness of 2 handed weapons.

A lot of the lighter and smaller weapons like kuri, scimitar and rapier also have a very high critical rate. Making them even more powerfull when you add another possible 3d6 damage to them.

[Teh Panda]

There is only 2 weapons I can think of that is out side the standard crit chance and damage multiplier. The scythe and the dwarven war axe. Those 2 weapons could be adjusted by the developers. Instead of giving them the 3d10 or 3d8 damage bonus. Knock them down 1 class and make it 3d8 and 3d6 and that should help make up for the extra mutiplier they each have.

Keep in mind that you require an Exotic weapon feat to use these weapons. And the Crit multiplier for Dwarven Waraxe is only x3 which isn't too outrageous for an axe.

[Sagil]

Thanos suggestion sounds like a good idea. I doubt that it completely solves the problem with shields being overly powerful (they really should have less boni than armor, but I'm getting a bit off topic here), but it's a step in the right direction and seems rather well-balanced. Although I have the feeling that the damage gets a bit high with that new system, maybe just add d2/d4/d6/d8 dice to tiny/small/medium/large weapons?
As far as critical range and multipliers are concerned, they are mostly well-balanced already, i.e. either have x3 or 19-20/x2 criticals. The (more powerful) exceptions to this like rapier, scimitar and scythe have a low base damage (d6,d6 and 2d4), so maybe they could simply get one hitdie-size smaller, i.e. rapier and scimitar get only d4 and scythe only d6?

[rkanodia]

One thing that hasn't really been taken into account here is that ANY bonus damage on weapons seriously devalues special abilities that increase damage by a fixed amount, such as Weapon Specialization or Sneak Attack. Weapon Specialization is a fighter-only feat; shouldn't players, given the choice, prefer it to Improved Critical? But of course no one does, when Improved Critical is so huge. Perhaps WS and SA (and Smite?) need to be re-examined.

[ATI]

Thanos is right, there should be some alteration in the damage models with regard to different type weapons. Also, Weapon specialization has never been any good, however, when you're a fighter, (the only class that can get the feat) it becomes a choice to take because you get 17 feats from lvl 1-20 as a fighter....so although rkanodia you are right, normal chars wouldn't care about WS, other chars also can't get the feats a fighter gets. However, when a lvl 15 fighter already has blindfight, power attack, cleave, imp critical, weapon focus (x2), knockdown, Improved Knock Down, and then has to decide what to take next....suddenly WS is something that, while not necessary is a little bit more to the edge of their weapon. So the fighter uses feats that are seemingly worthless as supplemental feats because they don't have anything else to add to their feats repetoire.

I don't see a need to re examine SA either. It requires levels of rogue, blackguard, or assassin. The SA damage is really good trade off for the rogues serious lack of HP. The extra damage is a good tradeoff for problems with the class fight wise. SA improves once every two lvls (from what i remember) so max they get 10d6 extra damage. anyways....

Just change the damage models from the weapons categories leave WS and SA for another forum

[JesterOI]

Easy exploitable part of fighter is to take it once you hit 20.
4 levels in you can get WS and EWS, +6 damage.
That's the idea I am using for my archer.
10 bard, 10 aa, 4 fighter for +6 damage, then AA up to 39, then at level 40 take bard once more to get lvl 11 bardsonge and to get 40 spellcraft and tumble (+8 saves vs spells, +8ac).
1-8+21 with bardsong, normal longbow, normal arrows, and no buffs.

[ATI]

hehehe thats not an exploit its just smart