A plea to un-nerf

[ATI]

see, now that is cool. I didn't know about the 3.5 rules. But thats cool. I just never heard of an explanation to what is going on, so I just keep posting ways to fix it with 3.0 rules. Still, have the dev's looked into making magic items more abundant to lessen the load of spell balancing?

and you got to give it up to me I bet NO one knows who Funk and Wagnals are

[Dyson]

Like I said, we'll match the description better (too many of Bio's spells don't) and this will trim the magic bullet aspect in the spell lists a lot. 3.5 Harm, Heal, Haste are changes we chose. Many PnP spells are beefed/nerfed in NWN because of areas where NWN doesn't follow PnP (i.e. effectiveness of damage shields because of NWN soak/resist/immune or the plot summon for black blade).

Remember, it'll take time to design, then more time to code, then more time to get into a beta-testable form.

About Haste, I suggested this in the Tracker but it got closed...can you make Haste just like it is in PnP where it is now an AOE like bless? As a single person buff Haste really isn't worth a 3rd level slot. Making it affect your party members would bring it back as a strong 3rd level choice.

There's a reason they did that to haste and dropped mass haste from 3.5

[Teh Panda]

Because you no longer get an extra spell from the partial action?

[Dyson]

I think you are misunderstanding me. I agree with the PnP change to haste because the extra action and 4 AC were far too much. However, reducing it to +1 to attack, ref saves and AC, an extra 30' movement rate and 1 extra attack for only 1 creature is not a 3rd level spell imo. The PnP designers agreed because they killed Mass Haste and allowed haste to affect 1 target/level. That makes it worth a 3rd level slot. Having a single person haste like this is underpowered and then a mass version at 6th is a joke.

Granted, old Haste was even more powerful in PnP than it was in NWN (a warrior could move and full attack, a caster could cast 2 spells, cast a spell and counterspell, etc), but I still think either making it 1 target per level or 1 per 2 levels would be make haste a desirable spell.

After all, why would a caster use haste when they could just cast Expeditious Retreat at 1st, or an extended version at 2nd?

[ATI]

oohhh... so 3.5 doesn't help get your buffs spells faster? Man....Although I agree with everything else...I wish to god that my spells could be cast faster with haste. But oh well

What is harms stats in 3.5?

[Teh Panda]

I'm just pointing out that they could see it as a balance to the heavy nerf it recieved. Just answering why they would remove Mass Haste and make Haste effect more than one target.

[Dyson]

oohhh... so 3.5 doesn't help get your buffs spells faster? Man....Although I agree with everything else...I wish to god that my spells could be cast faster with haste. But oh well

What is harms stats in 3.5?

Harm
Necromancy

Level: Clr 6, Destruction 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

Harm charges a subject with negative energy that deals 10 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level). If the creature successfully saves, harm deals half this amount, but it cannot reduce the target’s hit points to less than 1.

If used on an undead creature, harm acts like heal.

[ATI]

man...ouch....thats really harsh compared to ns3...sorry but I like 3.0's better, just because its a really powerful spell the clerics desperately need at lvl 11. But oh well.

However, with haste...can we make the spell cast time be decreased while hasted? It sorta makes sense that if you get an extra partial action you should be able to save time and cast a spell faster.

As it is it takes 3 seconds between each spell. With haste it should be 1.5 at least. (50 percent increased moving speed) Thats just my thinking though

[Hieroneus Maxim]

I like that idea for haste, allowing it to affect multiple targets. Reminds me of the days of Baldur's Gate.

The 3.0 haste was too much, casting 2 spells per round is what quicken spell is for. Yes, it's a slot 4 levels higher because casting multiple spells in a round is absolutely huge. I remember seeing haste in the original PHB and immediately saw it as overpowered.

As for harm, I have very mixed feelings about it.

[Dyson]

I like 3.5 Harm. In D&D (and NWN on non uber servers) a touch attack is usually dead easy to make and old Harm is almost impossible to survive without timing a heal just right.

New Harm does respectable damage for a 6th level spell even on a save. On a failed save it outdamages most mage spells till very high levels. Clerics aren't supposed to have better spell offence then mages and doing 5999 to a dragon counts as too much. In NS3 most beefy creatures were immune...now you can use Harm on pretty much anything but undead and prepped casters. Over time you will actually do more damage with the new version

The only thing it needs to make it just right for NS is to add it to the empowerable list. Also remember it's a will save so a lot of fighter/rogue types will have trouble making the save. 225 for an 8th level CLERIC spell (which are supposed to generally do less damage than wiz spells) is damn beefy.

ATI, reducing the time between spells would turn it into old Haste without the +4 AC. No way.

[DrakhanValane]

ATI: Normally there is 6 second from the beginning of one spell to the beginning of the next. One Round. Default NWN Haste is 3 seconds from spell to spell. The reason the devs changed Haste is because Haste made you cast faster. Harm in it's 3e/default NWN state is the most powerful offensive spell in the game.

[Denort]

Empowering harm will not accomplish anything. Empower increases dice based effects by 50%. So d4 becomes d6, d6 becomes d9, d10 becomes d15 and so on. Harm does 10 per caster level. There is no dice based effects so in turn, nothing for empower to work on.

[ATI]

yah....actually in PnP you can't cast two spells at once...you get a partial action, but it takes a full round action to cast a spell (full 6 seconds), but you could cast a spell and attack while hasted in PnP 3.0

I get what you're saying, as it is, you're right DV the 3 second is still better than 6 seconds. Im just a little loathe to take a minute getting my buffs in place. Harm is a wicked awesome spell in 3.0, however its not the best. DP is by far way more useful when extended. Then there is also Augury, which rocks, and Miracle....which is WAY better than wish.

I wonder....is there a way to make custom feats without a hak pak? Like salient divine feats for epic levels? (like alter reality and so forth....i love the epic handbook ).

Sorry im ranting now.....have fun ya'll.

[Teh Panda]

Casting a spell is a partial action.

From the 3.0E Player's Guide:
Unless doing so is a full-round action, in which case you could start a spell action. Spells that take longer than 1 full round to cast take twice as long to cast.

Under the note for Casting a spell under the Magic Partial Actions on page 127.

So if the spell takes less than a full round to cast, it should be castable under haste.

[Ace Dragonfury]

Harm is beefy still but not as great as it used to be.

One thing I don't understand is the nerfs on the mage spells like elemental shield, death armor, and acid sheath. Do these spells lead to killing bosses? NO. It may help but you are getting hurt if these go off as a mage. I can maybe understand that they shouldn't stack.