Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

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Amoenotep
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Amoenotep »

the arena of pvp is the entire server though. since relics were put in players seem to think thats the only thing your supposed to fight over. cross factional lvling is where you start seeing that no one cares who's doing what or what faction they are because the goal is lvls not faction dominance.

if you guys killed each other more on sight it would be more fun to pvp in smaller groups or off settings than you think. i always attack parties of reds no matter what lvl i am....even if its lvl 3 in gobos..those be my gobos and i'm claiming them for my faction.

bunch of wussies now days :(
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Monkey
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Monkey »

Amoenotep wrote:the arena of pvp is the entire server though. since relics were put in players seem to think thats the only thing your supposed to fight over. cross factional lvling is where you start seeing that no one cares who's doing what or what faction they are because the goal is lvls not faction dominance.
Faction dominance is a good (but shallow) motivating tool for getting people to level more toons and farm the best gear, but I think the net effect is to stifle good PvP opportunities.

Recruiting large numbers of newbies is the quickest way to achieve faction dominance. TCNC had overwhelming numbers, including a lot of newbies, in the last relic event and won it fairly easily. MASL stepped up its recruiting after that event, enlisting some players in the MASL guilds who I would not have wanted in my own guilds, and they achieved dominance for awhile. Recently AORK seems to be pouncing on new players and recruiting them into the fold before they get a chance to explore other factions and decide which play styles and personalities suit them best. AORK controls the relics most of the time now.

We end up with a lack of balance most of the time, which doesn't promote good PvP. I made a monk solo runner just because 1 vs. 3+ running is my only real option for PvP much of the time. It's exciting and fun, but it's not the same strategic challenge as a well-balanced team battle. If factions attacked each other aggressively and didn't level cross-faction the lack of balance would likely get much worse.

Certain times of day and days of the week seem to favor different factions. There are more AORK players active when it's daytime in Australia. TCNC gets more active on weekends and during the morning hours in the US. Numbers are small, but PvP is an option when enough of the Furies are online and get motivated. MASL activity picks up in the evening (European and Eastern US time) and there are usually some good battles between MASL and AORK then.

On the whole I think players have matured and it's a healthier server than it was when I started playing a couple years ago (and compared to the descriptions of what it was like in the old days). I don't really know how alliances and behaviors would shift if my suggestions were adopted:

-Players encouraged to build and play in all factions to gain a broader experience of the game, allow for balanced PvP at almost any time and create a better sense of community
-Competitive rivalries among private (invitation-only) clubs of veterans would substitute for the current factional rivalries.
-No permanent factional alliances
Level Based PvP among Factional Rivals:
-Shadow Legion vs. Northern Coalition
-Mystral Ascendancy vs. The Circle
-Ancient Ones vs. Last Alliance vs. Ragnar's Kin
-Bonus XP for PKs against rival factions.
-Additional quests raiding or defending against rival factions.
-Low XP cost for crafting level 30 gear and crafting advancement so that your crafters aren't always ECL 0 and don't stop leveling at 30.
-New players in particular should craft to get level appropriate gear and explore the different factions.
-One crafting trade in each faction. Encourage players to build playable crafting toons in all factions:


I think balance promotes more and better PvP. I think flexibility in choosing factions makes the game more interesting and fun. I think PvP mixed into the leveling process is a good thing if it has a clearly defined role that doesn't create animosity between players.

I'd like to believe that veterans would be motivated by challenge and log toons in the factions that needed more help in a battle, resulting in more balanced PvP. Many of the less skilled players might be more inclined to log toons on the dominant side so that they can be on the winning side more often. Again, I don't know how alliances and behaviors would change.

cRaZy8or5e
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by cRaZy8or5e »

Amoenotep wrote:
if you guys killed each other more on sight it would be more fun to pvp in smaller groups or off settings than you think. i always attack parties of reds no matter what lvl i am....even if its lvl 3 in gobos..those be my gobos and i'm claiming them for my faction.

bunch of wussies now days :(
agreed
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mining
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by mining »

I think factional loyalty is a really good thing. It means you can go out and pvp everyone who's red to dead without worrying about if they're your pal tomorrow ;)
Bargeld wrote:Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.

frogofpeace
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by frogofpeace »

Also agreed.
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Monkey
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Monkey »

mining wrote:I think factional loyalty is a really good thing. It means you can go out and pvp everyone who's red to dead without worrying about if they're your pal tomorrow ;)
Yes, much simpler that way, and easier for most to understand and act upon. Not a bad thing at all, but also the main reason why I need to take a break from NS4 and move on to other pursuits.

As for the server as a whole, I think the things everyone would enjoy and benefit from most would be a simplification of gear storage, transfer and sharing (needed especially now that passwords no longer function). Most players would be unhappy with a wipe or major changes, even if the result is better for the server and players in the long run.

The tedious tasks serve little purpose and could be streamlined with some significant effort on the part of developers:

-Less time spent on tedious tasks like crafting and gear transfer
-Gear and gold banking stations with the ability to deposit or withdraw gear through NPCs in all faction capitals, crafting stations and neutral areas.
-CD Key based access to banked gear, gold and items, so mule logging, dual logging and map holding not required on transfers
-Rapid regearing through gear banking system
-Low level drops automatically ID'd and stacked in inventory


Perhaps start with a bank building in Avendell, with chests for each type of item like you see in the shops: Armor, Shields, Weapons, Belts, Rings, etc.
You open up a chest. The game recognizes your CD Key and you store or retrieve your inventory of that type, perhaps it would even be automatically organized by level.

If that works, perhaps add a "deposit" chest.
Drop in stuff you want to store and it gets automatically sorted into the correct files so that you can retrieve it later from the appropriate chests.

If that works, add banking branches in other areas, and allow guild banks that can recognize multiple CD Keys.

Lokey
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Lokey »

Well, lots to think about.

For last, no one's made much headway on nwn gui, it's too hardcoded and limited, which is what you want for some of that. Probably most of that, there's no way I'm going to work on exploit proofing a bank, it'd take forever and tons of things would still be missed.

It'd be minor to make higher stack sizes on pots/scrolls and have higher amounts available to make at a time.

Crafting as a whole needs to be redone. Patches on patches on something I wrote in an afternoon, well that describes tons of things anyway.

In general, it's a bad idea to be presented with decisions when you first login that affect your character forever...
Tep wrote:I login and there's a dwarf to kill. You can't ask for much more than that.
Alkapwn wrote:NC has the most amazing melee build there is. Its a friggin unstopable juggernaut of pain.

Tobias
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Tobias »

If the crafting system is going to be looked at I think it would be a cool idea to add crafter npcs around the lands or even in guild halls. Thus making access to crafted goods a bit simpler. They can remain the same cost both gold and xp wise but it would be a million times more convenient than trying to transfer the items. And it might give people reason to travel to lesser used areas. It would just take the gold and xp from the character purchasing the items and in turn dropping right where you need said item. Just a thought.

Monkey
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Monkey »

Lokey wrote:For last, no one's made much headway on nwn gui, it's too hardcoded and limited, which is what you want for some of that. Probably most of that, there's no way I'm going to work on exploit proofing a bank, it'd take forever and tons of things would still be missed.

In PvP here I don't use consumables. It's a pain to stock them. The idea that you can be a better player by spending lots of time doing boring mindless tasks to me just seems plain wrong. If restocking was easy my tactics would change and expand.

On the other hand, I'll almost always take the time to re-gear toons at 5, 9, 13, 16, 20, 25, 30. I see it as my responsibility to have my toons ready to go and do their best to help a party. Regearing and keeping gear organized is a long, boring task though and part of why I've been burning out on NS4.


I started playing La La Land today. Turns out the developer has created a gold and gear banking system very much like what I was suggesting for NS4:

Gold Banking System which shares gold between all your characters.
Customized Housing System which allows you to place furniture that actually stores items you put in the containers. These items are stored across all your characters, so you may easily access your storage anytime from any character with a house and furniture!



The server crawl for the NWN 10-year anniversary sounds like an awesome idea. I plan on trying out as many servers as I can if they get it organized. It would be great if the developers could get together to share ideas for features and the code that goes with them. The whole community would benefit in many ways

Shadowalker
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Shadowalker »

mining wrote:I think this is cool, and a delicious post full of ideas. Some of it isn't likely to happen - but I don't care, I love getting suggestions, I love getting more perspective. If it plants the seed of an idea, and that sprouts ((This referance is a Twig trademark infrigment, you have been warned.)) - even though its not directly from your suggestions, its because you suggested it that we have cool feature X.
Twig (TSS) - Twig [CLAD] - Twigs -Fury- - SyNfully Rotted Twig - Twig'lee -Down Under- - Twig'zilla

Fergus Glonshire [FoN] - Sakij Lovac [FoN] - Zatharus Rivermoon (TSS) - Bumble (TSS) - Body built for SyN

Amoenotep
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Amoenotep »

Did you ever grow anything in the garden of your mind? All you have to do is think, and they'll grow.

sounds like you ripped it off from Rogers there...

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frogofpeace
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by frogofpeace »

Mr. Rogers is definitely TC. Looks like he might even be in the TSS guildhall - he's gonna put his boots in that bush behind him.

To one of monkey's points (or maybe it was tep - I get those two confused :P)
Lowbie PvP used to happen more often because that's all we had (except for one KSt who levelled to 40 in zons - those boys weren't right). Now people are focused on getting their final product, and for most people lowbie PvP is regarded as time that could be spent getting xp or gear for the final reward. Lowbie PvP is fun, though, and adds spice. I still pay attention when a DD is in my party; too many ambushes.

I don't know how to encourage it, though, just pointing out I thikn it's a good thing. Maybe I'll start playing red = dead :)
Three years of nursery school and you think you know it all.
- Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr

Amoenotep
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by Amoenotep »

if everyone played red=dead it would sort itself out. the point isn't that your not getting xp to be 40, its that your having a good time just being on the server no matter what lvl you are. promoting your faction through physical dominance over the others is just a perk :)
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hond
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by hond »

Lowbie PvP used to happen more often because that's all we had (except for one KSt who levelled to 40 in zons - those boys weren't right). Now people are focused on getting their final product, and for most people lowbie PvP is regarded as time that could be spent getting xp or gear for the final reward. Lowbie PvP is fun, though, and adds spice. I still pay attention when a DD is in my party; too many ambushes.

I don't know how to encourage it, though, just pointing out I thikn it's a good thing. Maybe I'll start playing red = dead
Stop logging a 40, when a member of his party is killed by a lowbie of his level...
Change the "venge log" rules, and make is more restrictive...as pointed before, some players will prefer to send a 40, in order to clean the area from intruse....instead of going back best prepared to have some lvling PvP.... Multilogger are broking constantly venge log rules, as the toon killed stay online, but a 40 is logged. Already saw RK/AO, using a CoT to achieve this task...
The Best lame excuse : "i log that toon for raise ( and if i cross you, i crush you...)
in order to promote those pvp, it will fine to try some map with lvls restrictions...In order to make atractives those maps, XP there is easier (+10 %), but only ranged levels can enter those maps...lvl 5-10 Map a 10-15 , 15-20,20-25 and 25-30...
1 unique zone for each range lvls..Some kind of teleport to acced to them, in no pvp area, in order to prevent the blocus of area by a 40....

frogofpeace
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Re: Long Term Goals for an Evolving Neversummer IV

Post by frogofpeace »

Yeah, logging a 40 to fight for your lowbies is lame, and venge logging is against the rules.

I'm absolutely okay with lowbie hunting ((within limits) and drive bys, but it's usually pretty obvious when someone venge logs.
Three years of nursery school and you think you know it all.
- Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr

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