Timer on transition

[Monkey]

adding a non-div focused CC (bard) will get you the other 10 to max out spot. The fact remains that you can get to 50 without having to wear spot gear or taking 3 feats (div epic focus) but an SL toon needs to get 20 points in gear to max spot without a div focused caster.

Wizards get 4 bonus feats. Take a couple pre-epic div focuses and you still have 2 free feats. A cleric can neuter itself by taking Knowledge domain, but with Wisdom granting bonus spell slots and boosting DCs they're more naturally inclined to be spotters... except for possibly a monk/arcane archer....

Helm = 10 spot
Gr. Div C/C = 15 spot
Gr. Div TS = 26 spot

0 Buffers -> NC token wins for self-buffing non-caster spotters
1 Buffer -> Mages win as buffers
2 Buffers -> We're all happily capped, but X + Bard wins with the added bonus of song and curse.

All these little debates over which factions have minor advantages over which other factions... are pretty funny. The size of parties and the skills of the players make much more of a difference than the relative strength of specific builds. The big-picture issues are so much more important for building a better server than the minor build and feat tweaks.

[weasel423]

Well, the MA Damage shield token used to stack with other damage shields... and you made those not stack anymore

[cRaZy8or5e]

Well, the MA Damage shield token used to stack with other damage shields... and you made those not stack anymore

That's cuz we've never needed it to stack in MA

[Monkey]

Like seen in other team pvp servers, and they don't lag at all even with 50 players online. If people find it annoying then just apply it on who is carrying a relic. I'd love to see the usual transgamer to read "you have to wait 10 seconds before using another transition".

Back to the original post...

Yes, good idea. 10 seconds would be very frustrating when I accidentally transitioned in the middle of a tough PvM battle, it would slow me down doing Empath 1 & 2 jobs, and it would make spawning certain maps for gear farming much more risky, but I think those aren't necessarily bad things. Something around 6-8 seconds might be worth it. Perhaps it could only be applied to the maps in faction areas.

[hond]

The problem is that we don't have the ability to make it unapply, so its a moot point.

I could always redo the token, but then we'd need to wipe. Its something worth considering.

give one to all faction and problem solve.....

[hond]

NC's only caster class is clerics. Clerics don't get all the cool AoE spells that sorcerors and wizards get which allow you to fight sneaks without being able to see them. Nor do clerics get the cool damage shields that arcane users get. Nor can clerics take the domains necessary to cap spot with spells AND get the AoE spells necessary to fight sneaks (ice storm) and get haste. Not to mention have the cross class to spot with. That's the only relevant argument to support why NC should get a job token that allows them to fight sneaks better than the other factions

worst oponent ever for a cser: a cleric...
- implosion if targeted will follow the runner even after corner hide...
- only lvl21+ monk will go near for SoV...
- a toon entering under SoV will automaticly make a save, who will appear in cleric log...
- negative energy burst, ice storm, implosion, black blade, wail ,greater dispel are more efective spells vs a cser...
wail is the less powerfull for gear protection (death spell), black blade target the floor, and it's hard to take a running target...
- wisdom base toon with listen access or spot when class cross...
I don't understand why the hell you say cleric worst vs Cser/hypser than sorc or wizard...in all the server i played since 5 years, clerics are the best tool to fight them.
NC particulary can build a DC implosion Cleric CoT Monk with 6-8 great wisdom+ esf spot+esf evocation
running a +21+22 wis mod will help a lot in order to spot your target and implode it... No need to spam 20 spells around. 10+9 (spell lvl)+21= 40 + feats (+6 to +12 if feats stack)= 46 DC way enought to breack down most commons csers...

[hond]

spot on previous exemple : 43 base +10 ESF+21 = 73 ...for 123 spot with 1 spot feat....
cleric 29 Cot 6 monk 5
Edit 1: you can make a ranger version droping cot, taking ranger only in epic lvl and 5 lvl, for 6 monk and 29 cleric...
prolly loose 1 dc, but gain preepic feat for sf spot and 127 cap...gain speed bonus..

[Amoenotep]

ranger favored enemy helps spot also

[rocketkai]

My comments again is that try to play more time and build more builds. You will understand this server better and won't make so many meaningless posts with a lot of wrong info. It will drive me crazy if someone from TNC built a wis-based cleric caster like this...

spot on previous exemple : 43 base +10 ESF+21 = 73 ...for 123 spot with 1 spot feat....
cleric 29 Cot 6 monk 5
Edit 1: you can make a ranger version droping cot, taking ranger only in epic lvl and 5 lvl, for 6 monk and 29 cleric...
prolly loose 1 dc, but gain preepic feat for sf spot and 127 cap...gain speed bonus..

[mining]

In my experience with Rozsudek: Poorly built HiPSers have [censored] will and fort and I explode them. Well built ones can kill me, because for DC 48 you can't get 120+ spot .

[Opie Crimeria]

NC's only caster class is clerics. Clerics don't get all the cool AoE spells that sorcerors and wizards get which allow you to fight sneaks without being able to see them. Nor do clerics get the cool damage shields that arcane users get. Nor can clerics take the domains necessary to cap spot with spells AND get the AoE spells necessary to fight sneaks (ice storm) and get haste. Not to mention have the cross class to spot with. That's the only relevant argument to support why NC should get a job token that allows them to fight sneaks better than the other factions

worst oponent ever for a cser: a cleric...
- implosion if targeted will follow the runner even after corner hide...
- only lvl21+ monk will go near for SoV...
- a toon entering under SoV will automaticly make a save, who will appear in cleric log...
- negative energy burst, ice storm, implosion, black blade, wail ,greater dispel are more efective spells vs a cser...
wail is the less powerfull for gear protection (death spell), black blade target the floor, and it's hard to take a running target...
- wisdom base toon with listen access or spot when class cross...
I don't understand why the hell you say cleric worst vs Cser/hypser than sorc or wizard...in all the server i played since 5 years, clerics are the best tool to fight them.
NC particulary can build a DC implosion Cleric CoT Monk with 6-8 great wisdom+ esf spot+esf evocation
running a +21+22 wis mod will help a lot in order to spot your target and implode it... No need to spam 20 spells around. 10+9 (spell lvl)+21= 40 + feats (+6 to +12 if feats stack)= 46 DC way enought to breack down most commons csers...

Clerics do not get BBoD or Wail; both of these spells are Arcane. Also BBoD is changed here (NS4) to replicate Implosion for Arcane. And also Cleric would have to take magic domain for the other spells. Magic is a good domain for adding offensive capabilities.

Also an Implosion DC cleric/X is going to have as many Spell Caster levels as possible to beat ECL3 SR of 45. This is the same for any Arcane build that goes for the highest spell DC. Im not sure how you would get all that 6-8 Gwis with a max of 30 cleric levels and still be effective beating ECL3 SR. The build would be Max 30 cleric and 5 CoT + 5 Monk. At least one great epic feat is lost with 5 monk levels for what? 10% speed boost. A cleric would also have to wear robes and no shield to take advantage of wis = AC thingie; which removes shield DR/DI.

A Implosion cleric would have -6DC on SoV. 42 Will save is definitely easier to achieve.

If Implosion, or any other spell, follows after a corner Hips means that you were spotted and the spell was already casted.

There are plenty of AoE spells that will alert the caster of a hidden attacker because of a save. Grease or many other spells. Arcane caster have an advantage of being able to cover an area for damage even without a good spot/listen.

[hond]

Clerics do not get BBoD or Wail; both of these spells are Arcane. Also BBoD is changed here (NS4) to replicate Implosion for Arcane. And also Cleric would have to take magic domain for the other spells. Magic is a good domain for adding offensive capabilities.

i know black blade and wail are wiz/sorc only...i name them as instant death spell, and try to explain that, implosion is better than wail and black blade in my opinion..(Gear save,you can't target a player).

Also an Implosion DC cleric/X is going to have as many Spell Caster levels as possible to beat ECL3 SR of 45. This is the same for any Arcane build that goes for the highest spell DC. Im not sure how you would get all that 6-8 Gwis with a max of 30 cleric levels and still be effective beating ECL3 SR. The build would be Max 30 cleric and 5 CoT + 5 Monk. At least one great epic feat is lost with 5 monk levels for what? 10% speed boost. A cleric would also have to wear robes and no shield to take advantage of wis = AC thingie; which removes shield DR/DI.

elf version for queen sense
cleric 29 cot 6 monk 5...preepic monk 4, cleric15, Cot1 : preepic feat : power attack, divine shield, esf kama, spell penetration, great spell penetration, spell focus evo, greater spell focus evo (can drop divine shield, for 2 other feats)

epic feats : 6 great wisdom (all 6 from cleric and CoT bonus) epic spell penetration. epic school evo, esf spot,esf disc...and 3 extra feats for take...
this is an anti cser toon. not the perfect anti-all toon..you don't have to fight indecent save toon (your TC)...46 DC implode will explode 90 % of cser toon, and if toon is fort ,mean is will or flex is attackable...you see them...that's the better weapon...with a bard on his side, you will spot 100% and they will save harder...with your AC and not FF, it will hard for a Cser to touch you...no need shield for DR/DI
I know i'm new on this server, but i made 7 lvld 40 yet, and all the crafter or supplies maker, i have 3 MA toon (38,30,9), and i played this game since 5 years now, perhaps i'm rubish yet , and my knowledge of the server is incomplete, but PvP is prolly the same in all server, with some specificity proper to each server...
Seems i have to make a CoT toon to confirm they OP... CoT are OP in all servers..as RDD and PM...
It's evident that a PM toon will hardly annoy some Top CoT toon, i'm just not agree with the arguments gives to justify why NC have that token...whitout that token, your the worst faction to fight Cser/hider?? definitvly not, as RK with race access can just make sniv (for keen sense)...That token give you a major adavantage ? in my opinion yes, as at same toon, you need less feats or don't need to take a UMD/caster toon, reach cap spot easier, and the worst thing is the undispel part and duration...It's only a job token, easy to complete and time invest, is way rentabilized...
I tried to give reasonable arguments, and this my rubish and humble opinion....

Hond

[hond]

At least one great epic feat is lost with 5 monk levels for what? 10% speed boost. A cleric would also have to wear robes and no shield to take advantage of wis = AC thingie; which removes shield DR/DI.

5 monk = evasion,+21 AC, deflect arrow, +1 AC, better save, tumble AND 30% speed.....

[Lokey]

When using spells: spell dc, caster level, survivability usually in that order for best results. Other numbers with other builds are more flexible, but a point of dc might double your effectiveness sometimes

Archer cler with a dash of monk is some good fun. Or dump the monk and just use a sling. You can do either and still meet the above, but throw away too many caster levels, oy.

[mining]

I'm be honest, if you make HiPSers who die to DC 46 implodes regularly you have no business complaining about clerics.
Actually, that was a little harsh. Let me clarify that statement:

I love cleric, and I love imploder. It is my most played toon by a mile and a half.

I ran a DC 48 35 cleric / 5 CoT. 43 ranks, 23 wis, +50 => 116 spot + Aas aura.
With that split (optimum for beating SR) I still had issues with racial SR, and forget about 40 monk builds - they were untouchable.
Here's what I found as time went on: Initially I could implode most people. There were a few notable HiPSers I couldn't - Dr Mcninja, one of the Reavers, and Zerg's Nom Amor. Further, I found a lot of 'fort' toons like barb and fighter weren't boom-proof either. Now, as people have been getting better, I see more HiPSers with 45+ fort - evidence that its not impossible. Further, I see all sorts of builds with rock solid saves - even such fragile things as bards have incredible saves now. This is a natural consequence of better understanding of the game and more gear bloat.
I found most builds to be playable against and with, and that I could be incredibly good party support while still having rewarding play as an imploder or CC caster through Hammer, Earthquake and SoV - DC 42 of which was useless except against the worst of builds (cough Cyclone cough).

With 116 spot and Aas aura, I found that I could play against most sneaks, albeit not actually keep sight of any decent HiPSer. I would rely on intermittent vision to land hammers or implodes (typically 5-10% chance a pop), and aim to draw their fire, using shield switching and heals to not die and support my team. In hindsight, playing with no spot would have been minimally harder - all it did was let me have more chances to cast searing against HiPSers who insisted on using melee weapons in my aura or against the lower hide builds.

IMO if you're finding cleric can beat your HiPSer - rough. Thats the nature of a spotter vs a hider. However, if an imploder is imploding your HiPSer reliably - you need to pick up your game.