I'd like Paladin

[VagaStorm]

Sorc AA requires 10 chr base to be a sorc. Wild elf is -2 chr and the best race for it. You will also be taking disc and spot and some sc, so you will need some int anyway. Making it a sorc just makes it harder on yourself.

You only need 10 cha if you whant to take sorc at lvl 1. If you take monk at 1, you can take sorc later with 8 cha, you just dont get any spels, but you can still take aa.

[mining]

Is there any rel difrence between a sorc and wiz in that build?

On a sidenote, which is rather important, dos a pally rdd get better stats than a cot or a pm? Both are bulds that is unmatched in ao/rk.

Let's build them and see:

PAL MONK COT VS PAL SORC RDD:

PAL SORC RDD SPECS:
DROW +2 books to all stats
Ab with extended favor and prayer + bull's and blinding speed and a scimitar +6: 62
Ac with divine shield: 74
Spot with helm and 2 scrolls= 102
47 fort with merfolk helm
43 will
43 reflexes


PAL MONK COT SPECS:
DROw +2 books to all stats
AB 70 with wrath (+11 undispellable), blinding and divine favor with kama, or with ss+8 (in that case you don't need to cast divine favor)
AC 81/91 with divine shield/with expertise
Spot with helms and NC TOKEN: 117 (121 if you don't want expertise)
65 fort with merfolk helm and NC TOKEN
69 reflex
60 will
708 hp with endurance potion.
20+8 damage reduction

While the Rdd build is only theorical because it can't be built, the CoT is a real thing, and there are a few of them around.

Please stop spreading misinformation. You're comparing a hybrid RDD build against a dex CoT, yet you mention this nowhere.
As I mentioned earlier, back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest:

Edited to add: Going straight dexxer paladin 29 / 1 / 10 isn't bad either, 18 dex as opposed to 16 str, so like 67 AB. 4 more dex mod too, so 80 self AC. And 12 buffed str mod vs like 16 (apparently) on your hybrid idea.

There's also the ability to clone a variety of other builds using paladin, some of which, as I mentioned, I'd take over a CoT in the blink of an eye.

Edit: Other than that, you're not mentioning scroll use on both builds, DR on the RDD from shield surpasses the monk CoTs DR, etc. These flat build comparisons are only useful when you include literally everything they can do.

[Opie Crimeria]

Is there any rel difrence between a sorc and wiz in that build?

On a sidenote, which is rather important, dos a pally rdd get better stats than a cot or a pm? Both are bulds that is unmatched in ao/rk.

Let's build them and see:

PAL MONK COT VS PAL SORC RDD:

PAL SORC RDD SPECS:
DROW +2 books to all stats
Ab with extended favor and prayer + bull's and blinding speed and a scimitar +6: 62
Ac with divine shield: 74
Spot with helm and 2 scrolls= 102
47 fort with merfolk helm
43 will
43 reflexes


PAL MONK COT SPECS:
DROw +2 books to all stats
AB 70 with wrath (+11 undispellable), blinding and divine favor with kama, or with ss+8 (in that case you don't need to cast divine favor)
AC 81/91 with divine shield/with expertise
Spot with helms and NC TOKEN: 117 (121 if you don't want expertise)
65 fort with merfolk helm and NC TOKEN
69 reflex
60 will
708 hp with endurance potion.
20+8 damage reduction

While the Rdd build is only theorical because it can't be built, the CoT is a real thing, and there are a few of them around.

I really want to see your Pal Monk CoT build that gets all this stuff; mainly the super AC/AB, 708 HP, and 119spot on a Drow that gets -2 Con. I have a dex Pal/Monk/CoT that gets some of this stuff; but no way does it get so high HP - yes even when maxed. Either you are that smart or just very good at passing bad information.

[Jmana]

Ive got an 8 pally 6 monk 26 cot thats drow and used all +2 books,

608hp 61 fort 65 reflex 55 will with NC token 116 spot
71 ab black sword with divine wrath and divine power
67 ab monk gloves
66 ab deathbow

65 ac 75ac divineshield +ive got expertise that i only ever use pvm really

It's a fun toon and often just wipes the floor with certain builds but you can't have everything.
Bigbies hurts so does igms and without a shield your damage resistance is pitiful though on this build i can use shields with robes my blinding speed + monk speed is very slow when i do this, but it's ok if going toe to toe with say a dragon where you need pierce + slash

The main reason i built the toon was for pvm 40's gear hunting parties and secondly cause im so gosh darn sick of BS stuning fist, stun builds and hips builds + combo's of both are exceedingly prevelent in pvp and stun fist needs looking at if you ask me but meh no one did Other build is a 30 bard 10 pm you get stun immunity and a very high listen score kill two birds with one stone. BTW its amazing how many ppl still try to stun pm's in pvp lol

Anyways those are the stats on an actual pally monk cot thought ppl might find it interesting.

[Rufio]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that stunning fist isn't overpowered. I hate it myself, but I am guessing a fix just isn't very easy to code.

[Adventurer#1337]

Please stop spreading misinformation. You're comparing a hybrid RDD build against a dex CoT, yet you mention this nowhere.
As I mentioned earlier, back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest:

Edited to add: Going straight dexxer paladin 29 / 1 / 10 isn't bad either, 18 dex as opposed to 16 str, so like 67 AB. 4 more dex mod too, so 80 self AC. And 12 buffed str mod vs like 16 (apparently) on your hybrid idea.

There's also the ability to clone a variety of other builds using paladin, some of which, as I mentioned, I'd take over a CoT in the blink of an eye.

Edit: Other than that, you're not mentioning scroll use on both builds, DR on the RDD from shield surpasses the monk CoTs DR, etc. These flat build comparisons are only useful when you include literally everything they can do.

mining attempts a troll attack : **critical failure!** ….


I'm not spreading misinformation, you are: saying pal rdd has more dr because of shield (laughs) while pally cot can use shield as well.
I asked a legit question and I did it by building (quickly i admit but is enough to get the big picture) rdd pal and posting the stats.
Include everything? Why should I bother, I think i've done enough. OK I didn't mention that Cot gets ikd. Does that count?

You converted it in a dexer! Nicely done! *APPLAUSE*
I assume you will go for weapon finesse.
How about a good exercise then?

Pre epic are : bf, pa, dm, ds, w focus, imp crit, ext spell. Epic feats are great ability4, bs, esf dis, esf spot + ewf, ep, armor skin.
What are you gonna remove for weapon finesse? Let's encourage mining! *APPLAUSE*

[Daral0085]

Thanks for the amusement.

monk wiz aa 30 is better than monk sor aa 30 ? lol between you and barg I can't decide who is more fun

My apologies. I had thought that AO was given a super-powerful build, only to be corrected that they already have access to it. Certainly the fact that they already have super-strong builds shows that they should not be given paladin. The fact that AO has (as far as I've ever seen, and I've been here 2 years) never actually done anything with monk/AAs just goes to show they have inferior builders, and not inferior build options.

I move to adjourn.

[Rufio]

You can't really say that you should have a class just because one build is less powerful than another build.

Factions have class restrictions to give factions their own unique flavor. AO is far less class/alignment restrictive than any faction outside of RK.

[mining]

The fact that AO has (as far as I've ever seen, and I've been here 2 years) never actually done anything with monk/AAs just goes to show they have inferior builders, and not inferior build options.

The truely sad thing is that they do, but at the time it didn't matter because of numbers, and by the time it did matter TCNC could deal with them due to experience.

I'm not spreading misinformation, you are: saying pal rdd has more dr because of shield (laughs) while pally cot can use shield as well.

I'm just going to put it out there: You quote paladin/monk/CoT, then claim it can just throw on a shield and lose nothing. It'll lose APR and AC, most likely.

As for making it a dexxer - I'd drop 2 great dexes for finesse and efort. I never said it was a great, super high powered build (you know, like those insanely amazing rangers), just that you could easily make a better dexxer - you're already getting 26 dex on your hybrid, after all, and only using a 1x bonus.

Finally: Yes it is misinformation to compare a STR build to a DEX build and claim the lower stats as a win for the dex build. I know of str/dex hybrid CoTs with AB/AC figures comparable to similar battelclerics, which also get amazing heals.

I maintain again: The best build out of NC I've ever seen has 0 CoT levels. People quote it as an example for nerfing CoT to me.

[Adventurer#1337]

My apologies. I had thought that AO was given a super-powerful build, only to be corrected that they already have access to it. Certainly the fact that they already have super-strong builds shows that they should not be given paladin. The fact that AO has (as far as I've ever seen, and I've been here 2 years) never actually done anything with monk/AAs just goes to show they have inferior builders, and not inferior build options.

I move to adjourn.

Apologies laddie? It's the nth step of trolling when you are low on arguments?
I wasn't there and haven't seen when AO had numbers, but I'm quite sure that someone has AA with near a milion xp from defending, and great killing sprees.
Perhaps you should apologize for calling them "inferior builders"
You are lucky they don't read this forum because they believe it's a huge waste of time.
But in the middle of trolls i've seen a couple of intelligent replies, so there is still hope for this place

The truely sad thing is that they do, but at the time it didn't matter because of numbers, and by the time it did matter TCNC could deal with them due to experience.

There are at least 5 perfectly built AA's in AO that i've seen.
And about experience, many AO people were playing in neversummer4 since its creation, and have built and rebuilt AA's before your only 2 years of experience.

Finally: Yes it is misinformation to compare a STR build to a DEX build and claim the lower stats as a win for the dex build. I know of str/dex hybrid CoTs with AB/AC figures comparable to similar battelclerics, which also get amazing heals.

Oh it's not misinformation I had that hybrid version in mind. Yours got what? 1 ab and 4 ac? Ok ,since you corrected it with the dex version, now people can see the difference.

I'm just going to put it out there: You quote paladin/monk/CoT, then claim it can just throw on a shield and lose nothing. It'll lose APR and AC, most likely.

I got more homework for you mining:

How much AC does the pally monk CoT lose by equipping a tower shield?

(who cares about the apr, cot with rapier and shield can solo sabar's sanctum, isn't good enough?)

I'll write the answer down below , don't read it ok?






(((( 1 ac if someone buffed your wis )))

[mining]

I'm just saying you can't quote figures selectively without specific backing. I don't want to have to make 3 different builds in CBC to see if that build you're quoting is a hybrid, if you dumped wis, etc.

[Jmana]

My pally monk cot actually gains ac by using a tower shield, 3 ac i think can't check, server's down atm. But as i said he becomes very slow lol only good for toe to toe action.

The whole argument is a moot point anyways it's already been stated your not getting paladins in AO so time to move on. Besides you can build pally in RK ive got a 37 pally rogue wpnmaster that when finsihed has 75ac epic dodge and 60 ab, think outside the box

Anyways how bout that stunning fist can u change the feat imp stun fist to give only +1 to dc instead of +2 ?? i mean plenty of epic feats have been changed on NS4 like terror rage, mighty rage, blinding speed. Maybe thats doable i don't know.

[Rufio]

Anyways how bout that stunning fist can u change the feat imp stun fist to give only +1 to dc instead of +2 ?? i mean plenty of epic feats have been changed on NS4 like terror rage, mighty rage, blinding speed. Maybe thats doable i don't know.

I just assumed it was harder to code because improved stunning fist is a passive bonus where as those other feats are active buffs. I'd like that change too.


Also, you can't quantify how much ac a monk build will lose by equipping a shield. It depends entirely on your build.

[Midterm]

dali llama drama strikes again

*throws popcorn from peanut gallery*

[Elagneros]

The fact that AO has (as far as I've ever seen, and I've been here 2 years) never actually done anything with monk/AAs just goes to show they have inferior builders, and not inferior build options.

You're assuming AO has any builders.