Blackguards

[Cahaal]

I forgot about the useless feat of use poison that BG's get. It's well,...useless.

[mining]

The main reason there are no amazing BGs is because TC and NC don't get BG. But seriously, how about sorc35/BG5. Thats an amazing BG. Also, why take 29 BG, given that the last BG feat level is 28. Also, I wonder how many books you used on your BG, just out of interest. Don't compare your smiter with a focused melee build. Finally, CoTs don't need to be good for the same reason Harper Scouts don't require you to be good.

[frogofpeace]

It's just the normal run of debate - actually relatively little name-calling in this one . Sorry about your accident, get well soon!

[Rufio]

I view thread topics as a meandering path. Like right now the thread is on the topic of meandering thread topics.

[Cahaal]

CoTs and Harper Scouts are very different. Harpers are a secret society and therefore yield some neutrality by RP. CoTs are Divine Warriors for Torm to wipe out evil. Neutrality would want a balance of good and evil and not the erradication of either and therefore does not fit with the concept of the CoT. Additionally, CoT's get smite evil making them lean from neutral to good. Neutral alignments were probably allowed to give more freedom of building but makes little sense in the manner it is implemented here.

The reason for the 29 BG was for max summon, however I found out too late that the summon had capped much earlier. Being ECL 3 and in a planar run at the time, I decided to continue getting xp instead of trying to delevel and rethink it at lvl 37.

[Merrip]

The Alignment of a CoT is very much a grey area unfortunately and it really depends on what school of thinking you apply.

On one side it is based of the 3.5 edition Divine Champion with Minimum Requirements as follows:

Base Attack Bonus: +7.
Know (religion): 3 ranks.
Feats: Weapon Focus
(deity’s favored weapon).
Must dedicated himself to be
a champion for the deity.
Min Lvl: Bbn7, Ftr7, Pal7,
Rgr7, Brd10, Clr10, Drd10,
Mnk10, Rog10, Sor14,
Wiz14.

Now many people believe that the alignment needed to become this is dictated by the deity of which you choose to follow of course as NWN1 only calls it Champion of Torm

Saying that though just because Bioware decided to list the class as Torm I personally do not feel that it should mean only those who wish to be LG followers of Torm who use a Greatsword and only use domains Good, Healing, Law, Protection, Strength.

It is meant to be a class that can be taken by any alignment dependent on the deity you choose.

The other school of thought is as Bioware listed it as Torm it should be strictly LG Torm followers. Of course 99% of people would not agree with this evaluation.

[Shadowalker]

This is about the best post for basic interpratation of the intent of this class.

The 'balance' issue.. I'll leave to fate.

The Alignment of a CoT is very much a grey area unfortunately and it really depends on what school of thinking you apply.

On one side it is based of the 3.5 edition Divine Champion with Minimum Requirements as follows:

Base Attack Bonus: +7.
Know (religion): 3 ranks.
Feats: Weapon Focus
(deity’s favored weapon).
Must dedicated himself to be
a champion for the deity.
Min Lvl: Bbn7, Ftr7, Pal7,
Rgr7, Brd10, Clr10, Drd10,
Mnk10, Rog10, Sor14,
Wiz14.

Now many people believe that the alignment needed to become this is dictated by the deity of which you choose to follow of course as NWN1 only calls it Champion of Torm

Saying that though just because Bioware decided to list the class as Torm I personally do not feel that it should mean only those who wish to be LG followers of Torm who use a Greatsword and only use domains Good, Healing, Law, Protection, Strength.

It is meant to be a class that can be taken by any alignment dependent on the deity you choose.

The other school of thought is as Bioware listed it as Torm it should be strictly LG Torm followers. Of course 99% of people would not agree with this evaluation.

[Merrip]

Of course the only real way that it would be "accurate" is if Smite Infidel was implemented in NWN1 which is unfortunate that it is not, but would put the debate over neutral CoT with smite evil to rest.

Type of feat: Class

Prerequisite: Cleric with Destruction domain, Divine champion level 3

Required for: None

Specifics: Once per day, the player can smite a creature of a different alignment than himself, adding his Charisma bonus to the attack roll and his class level to damage.

Use: Selected

[mining]

Of course the only real way that it would be "accurate" is if Smite Infidel was implemented in NWN1 which is unfortunate that it is not, but would put the debate over neutral CoT with smite evil to rest.

Type of feat: Class

Prerequisite: Cleric with Destruction domain, Divine champion level 3

Required for: None

Specifics: Once per day, the player can smite a creature of a different alignment than himself, adding his Charisma bonus to the attack roll and his class level to damage.

Use: Selected

I consider the lack of smite infidel to be the sole reason why smiting isn't the best mechanic in the game.

[Merrip]

I would have to agree if smite infidel was indeed used on NS4 being able to be obtained by any cleric with the right domain and CoT's then it would become a very very popular basis for a lot of builds and with the amount of damage that can be put out by smiters nasty.

I simple meant in NWN1 in general, but then again I wish it was Divine Champion and not CoT

[mining]

I would have to agree if smite infidel was indeed used on NS4 being able to be obtained by any cleric with the right domain and CoT's then it would become a very very popular basis for a lot of builds and with the amount of damage that can be put out by smiters nasty.

I simple meant in NWN1 in general, but then again I wish it was Divine Champion and not CoT

Hehe. Anyway, BGs are still good, they could still be better, and you can still make Edodging crippling strike BGs with a maxed out summon and good AB.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Having seen what BG's are capable of from both sides, with the right support they are absolutely brutal. The Summon is the X-factor. Imo the summon doesn't need any help with AB or damage. But it could use some with saves. The fact that it's vulnerable to posi damage/heal spells is more than just an annoyance. It's downright irritating when you're in a massive melee and both sides have clerics spamming mass heals lol. If there was some way to fix that or even remove it, I think that would help considerably.

[mining]

Having seen what BG's are capable of from both sides, with the right support they are absolutely brutal. The Summon is the X-factor. Imo the summon doesn't need any help with AB or damage. But it could use some with saves. The fact that it's vulnerable to posi damage/heal spells is more than just an annoyance. It's downright irritating when you're in a massive melee and both sides have clerics spamming mass heals lol. If there was some way to fix that or even remove it, I think that would help considerably.

If they got healed by mass heals *shudders*

[Cahaal]

Some SR might help the situation including the problem with low saves.

Why do they go into detect mode if they have no spot or listen. Either give them the abilities or take away detect mode.

[Twiggy]

The main reason there are no amazing BGs is because TC and NC don't get BG. But seriously, how about sorc35/BG5. Thats an amazing BG. Also, why take 29 BG, given that the last BG feat level is 28. Also, I wonder how many books you used on your BG, just out of interest. Don't compare your smiter with a focused melee build. Finally, CoTs don't need to be good for the same reason Harper Scouts don't require you to be good.

that isn't a BG that's a sorcerer. if it was a BG it would have a majority of BG lvls.