Thoughts on Friendly Factions

[Rainswept]

So I've been thinking today about factions and reputation, and I had a couple thoughts I wanted to kick around.

I realized that one of my toons which accidentally became hostile to his partner faction (which is VERY easy to do when fighting shadowdancers, as any KD attempt hits guards if they que break you) and is now going to have a tremendously difficult time getting faction back, since AFAIK the only way I can do it is to get lucky enough to pull RK's relic out when raiding and take it back to RK for them over and over, all without managing to hurt any more hostile guards.

Conversely, It's now common practice for some players to defend "enemy" factions, sometimes even against their own faction, all to no detriment. Last week I watched a PM defend TC's relic against a group of GODS toons trying to get their relic back

Anyway it seems wrong to me that the accident is so crazily penalized while the practice of teaming with the enemy against your own faction has no negatives. I'm not quite sure how to make this more fair, but I'd think we could do better than the current way. At the very least I would like to see a better way to get faction back for your companion faction.

[Alkapwn]

You don't need to pull RK's relic just any relic ,cradle to cradle once then logout. log back in and you should have enough rep back to not be hostile, ahh unless you mean its in AO toon gone hostile in RK. then good luck to ya

As for foreign defenders- thats been going on for forever. who is it now? Gangsta's, before it was (A), and a myriad of other cults dating back to Okie's and prior. Oh and look people are still whining about it!

[Rainswept]

ahh unless you mean its in AO toon gone hostile in RK. then good luck to ya

Exactly what I mean

[SkotG]

I have a similar issue with Mongo the Pawn, who knocked down a bard in Beryn and lost friendly standing to NC about 6-8 months ago while fighting Brat DD.... it stinks cause i couldnt hope to get into NC headquarters with a Barb without hitting someone else...

[Alkapwn]

you can still just run in cap and log once you lose faction it dooesnt get much worse

[Korr]

Dont rage your way through lol

[muze]

I agree. Even if forced to undertake some mission or pay a certain amount of funds to a DM, the ability to regain faction needs to be re-worked if by some mistake faction is lost. I know that when in a large fight when toons and mobs are grouped closely together the "misclick" of lets say, "Stunning fist" can bring much misfortune on a faction friendly player.

[Amoenotep]

it takes more than a single missclick to go completely hostile. i don't care what you say about " i only knocked him down the once and ran away". i've tested it lots and lots over the years and i've gotten away with straight up killing atleast 4 guards before i'm completely hostile

[Rainswept]

4 guards? I'm sorry but no way. I killed 1, 2 at the most and I'm even red to RK players.

1 Misclick KD from a dragon onto a guard outside in RK is instadeath to that toon, especially in the lag from big raids, which is where this happens. Heck, I often can't even tell who I'm attacking in the lag, and doubly difficult with a dragon. if I tried to even go into rk now I'd be destroying guards left and right just with attacks of opportunity.

[Amoenotep]

from SL i killed 6 guards. AO i killed 3-4. NC only took 2 . MA took 3-4. RK...well..does anyone play that faction? TC killed me a couple there.

[Korr]

from SL i killed 6 guards. AO i killed 3-4. NC only took 2 . MA took 3-4. RK...well..does anyone play that faction? TC killed me a couple there.

Just the class combos they cant make in AO... since Both the RK guilds are all AO guys too

[Eldaquen]

Maintaining faction, even in ones allies' city, is not that difficult. After 6 years of adventuring in Aetheria, I can only recall losing faction twice. Once with NC due to a misplaced hellball, pre-40. The other occasion was during a DM event which for reasons I have forgotten inherently cost participating players their faction and made Avendell hostile, but that was long long ago.

When defending in large groups I take special care not to take any action that might result in losing faction. That means if I can not confirm the target, then I am not using KD or greater ruin until have clear and unobstructed view to confirm the target then click. It also means, when playing a druid, not casting Creeping Doom, Ice Storms or Vine Mine (to name a few) when NPC's are present. It also means being weary of Raiders intentionally pulling friendly NPC's to my AoE spells in attempts to cost me my faction, which has been done, but not in recent history.

I realize taking your time during a choatic encounter is frustrating, epecially in the present win at any cost attitudes that seems to prevail nowadays. However, casters especially druids are unable to use many of their spells if friendly NPC's are present. Many of druids' better spells are not party nor NPC friendly, so they don't get utilized until safe to do so. To do so otherwise would careless and deserving of lost faction. Only seems fair that a melee toon whom may not be paying attention to their targets would suffer same consequence as a caster not paying attention when casting their spells. I am sure those that play wizards and sorc can give examples of misplaced bigbies against friendly NPC's costing them faction.

I'm sorry but this issue just seems to be one of carelessness and a matter of accoutability than something requiring script change or auto remedy. There was a time when even caping your own relic would not restore any lost reputation, so your request was granted just not in the expedient manner you were hoping for.

Aetheria is a persistant world, our actions are supposed to have consequences.

If you wondering what happened; I took time out of adventuring, prayed in the forest for a long time until the gods took notice. I received a quest to make amends upon completing the gods forgave the incident.

Try taking time out to RP repentance, perhaps the gods will take notice.

[Rainswept]

I'm sorry but this issue just seems to be one of carelessness and a matter of accoutability than something requiring script change or auto remedy. There was a time when even caping your own relic would not restore any lost reputation, so your request was granted just not in the expedient manner you were hoping for.

Aetheria is a persistant world, our actions are supposed to have consequences.

It's not careless to try to knockdown/stun people who are running or hiding, it's the appropriate countermeasure especially when you consider the hips que breaking tactics. Actions should have consequences, absolutely, and if I was being careless with ice storm or something I'd agree, but that's not what's going on. This is a case of a minor flaw in the game design and extremely bad lag combining to this effect, not "careless actions."

A recent defense in RK was agains Frin, McNinja, Noctournal, and I belive Lauffer was in that one. If I couldn't use attacks other than normal I might as well just stand there and let them walk out the door in hips. What's more, Noctournal wasn't trying to get me to attack guards, its just something that can happen in bad lag. Cleave very quickly complicates the issue as well. I'm not sure why it's set up to where you can "accidentally" stun/kd/disarm/powerattack friendly PCs when you couldn't do it to your teammates but it doesn't make any sense from the RP perspective you seem to be supporting. If you want to say that a character deserves a bad reputation from an RP perspective, please reread my original post and explain why those characters who defend enemy factions against their own troops are free to do so with a pristine reputation while a situation like this can ruin mine.

Back on the real topic, what I'm hoping to see is a method of repairing your own reputation for friendly factions. Being able to bring relics other than RKs to cap in RK would do it, or interesting twists like being able to do the RK job quests as a penance (not for rewards, simply for reputation) is another thought.

[Eldaquen]

As it stands now, dual logging has been allowed the entire time the server has existed, everyone is fully aware it's allowed when they choose to come here, and it's very common especially among the most dedicated players. Suddenly deciding it's not OK after all this time would be a negative thing, I think.

I am perplexed: why in regards to dual logging your in favor of no change because that is the way its always been, but not for faction loss. In regards to faction loss, that is the way its always been. As I stated earlier, in the past there was no way to regain faction without DM involvement, capping your factions relic is relatively new addition to the server.

Furthermore: as you had penned but in different topic. Everyone is fully aware of the dangers of KD, Stunning, and disarming one of your NPC's. Just as everyone is fully aware party unfriendly spells will cause faction loss to a caster. When I said careless I was not referring to anyone person, rather the act of knowing full well many NPC's were in the immediate vicinity and going ahead with an action that risks faction loss is careless.

When I loss faction to NC due to misplaced hellball, I was careless. Had I minded where the NPC's were that event would not have occured. I did not fully account the risk. I owned up to it, paid my dues and it was fixed.

One of the reasons maintaining ones faction status is so precious is it is difficult to regain. Making it easier to regain will only promte more people to lose, as it would decay the value of maintaining ones faction. As it stands now, only those not considering the full impact of their actions are negatively affected by hitting their NPC defenders and not taking immediate appropriate measures to mitigate.

I am not convienced this solely occurs against SD's. I have witnessed friends and allies who are defending TC attempt a disarm, KD or stun on a non hips AO or RK raider but hit a TC NPC instead turning them hostle (when in a large group of NPC's were present). Luckily, they are wise enough to realize something of value was at risk and took measures to reduce the risk. A stun, disarm or KD by itself does not cost faction. My friends and allies immediately have left the area or logged. Yes, this puts defending at a disadvantage while they resolve their faction issue. But it is clear they value their faction status and take appropriate action to protect even when doing so put that encounter of defense at disadvantage. They saved what mattered and lived to fight another day.

If someone misclicks on disarm, KD or Stunning and does not immdiately address saving their faction, choosing to stay and fight opponents thereby further risking faction because their NPC's are for that moment hostile, why should that person benefit from an easy convenient way to regain faction? Ultimately a choice was made, save faction or kill the raider no matter the cost. Frankly I'd rather the cost remain.

If it were changed then it should have nothing to do with capping relics. As right now AO and RK are most likely be be able to regained loss faction, as the other factions have AO and RK to contend with in attempting to regain faction. Under the current status of the world those people in TC, NC, MA, SL have it more difficult to regain faction due to all the multi-logging going on.

[Sohjin]

I remember once way back when I first made an Air Genasi I thought it would be fun to use the gust of wind token to knock down one of my guild mates. As we were standing in the middle of Garagoth it had the bonus effect of turning the various NPCs hostile as well. I legged it, being only lvl 1 at the time, into the inn and didn't lose faction status permanently. Suppose this supports Amoenotep's point that it takes a sustained bout of combat to upset them for awhile. Obviously the circumstances I have described was an MA toon in MA so slightly different.

Also if I recall correctly it took my crafter several kills on the Monks of the Way to get them permanently hostile, with the added (and unexpected) bonus of the Avendell mercs taking their side. To think all I wanted was some reasonable low level cloth to level up in, darn neutrals.