Epic Mage Armor nerf........

[renarð]

Karate was a lot of fun, the hp on that toon always seemed abyssmal though.

If memory serves, you had evoc focus for a time while testing bigby 9. What was the final verdict on that, and maybe you could test prismatic spray as well =)

[Korr]

Transmutation, Evocation, Conjuration focuses. With the DK summons now having keen senses she rocks across the board.

I never finished the character that was the "anti-bigby" toon so I never got finalized results on that.


Sehrvin'Plaxun Inkbeard is another of my wizzies, diff focuses but part DwD, the HPs and DR there make for a great wizzy. . . who needs AC! Bwahaha

[Ryddwillow]

OpalimTeGolim wrote:
Another addition for your list renard

1) Dogmatic claim (after ignoring 12 pages of discussion): AC 34 should be enough for wizards.
2) Proof: Very few ppl can actually play such wiz, therefore people don't know how to play wizards.
3) Conclusion: AC 34 should be enough for wizards.

I mean, really... after 12 pages of discussion with detailed explanation and examples what wiz can and can not do, you come and say that ac 34 should be enough and that ppl just can't play them?

Let me guess... your main toons are in TC/NC, right?

P.S.
I don't have anything against TC/NC. I think that some of the nicest ppl are there, I like them and party with them often. And I am sorry you guys don't have wizards/sorcs there.

P.P.S.
You rarely fight 1 on 1 during relic raids.

Wait some new dolt playing a sorc from Ao or a wizard from RK. If you are from AO and you do sound confident only a few of you dolts really know how to play a good wizard(erm SORC). I have beaten many a dm's and players (SOME players cry foul to dm thou after they are beaten). So I am Guessing you are from AO and you Sukk and are picking on lil ones? no problems. Just do what they do and complain to a DM and say it was foul. Or wait the greatest is to wait on the floor of your enemy dead and wait forever until you get some dolts to rezz you. (could be like 4 hours on the early morning shift). So is this your answer? good glad to hear it. Oh your response is "soon"

[Thorac27]

woo what is the deal with the new change to epic mage armour ?

[Alkapwn]

At least its Dodge and not +6 shield like last nerf . that was terrible

[Shamedmonkey]

Dear god, finally. This needed to be done for a long time.

[Cahaal]

I don't have a mage with this spell, but I'm confused about the change. Now if you use a shield you will get full benefits from it now? If not you lose 7 AC now with this change? What is the net effect for mages and PMs?

[Shamedmonkey]

I don't have a mage with this spell, but I'm confused about the change. Now if you use a shield you will get full benefits from it now? If not you lose 7 AC now with this change? What is the net effect for mages and PMs?

It means that the stupidity of Monk casters being able to get shield AC without losing their wisdom AC is dead and gone. For PMs it means that they have to use a shield to get the AC they were getting from EMA before the nerf.

[Tru3Fals3]

actually this means that the only thing that doesnt get covered by this nerf is the problem to begin with, this doesnt effect pm dex builds at all, they lose 1ac, its bad enough that something with undead properties can cast 10,000 heals and greater resto's on itself and still gets all the benefits of being undead (immunity to crit and sneak, stun etc) without the real vunerabilities undead creatures should have (ie vunerable to heals which are positive energy which should hurt pms...) but these build now have an even greater advantage, they gain 5 dodge to replace the 6ac shield ac they lose from this nerf (while all other casters of any type lose at least 7ac), a whole 1ac less on 85ac cleric pms, call me crazy but thats not balance.

[cRaZy8or5e]

actually this means that the only thing that doesnt get covered by this nerf is the problem to begin with, this doesnt effect pm dex builds at all, they lose 1ac, its bad enough that something with undead properties can cast 10,000 heals and greater resto's on itself and still gets all the benefits of being undead (immunity to crit and sneak, stun etc) without the real vunerabilities undead creatures should have (ie vunerable to heals which are positive energy which should hurt pms...) but these build now have an even greater advantage, they gain 5 dodge to replace the 6ac shield ac they lose from this nerf (while all other casters of any type lose at least 7ac), a whole 1ac less on 85ac cleric pms, call me crazy but thats not balance.

Why would I call you crazy, when I'm the crazy one! I don't think this change came about purely as a result of how powerful PM's were. Monk casters could very easily achieve PM type AC's as well, with the monk benefits of extra speed, evasion, involved too. Not quite the list of feats that a PM gets, but then you add a casters ability to drop the boom on things and suddenly you've got something much much more deadly than a PM insofar as pure killing power. I think EMA was more for pure casters to allow them to have a little bit of AC to give them a slim chance to escape someone chain kding or the possibility that an enemy caster's bigsby will miss on its initial roll. Maybe we implement it as a pure class bonus only?

An autostilled caster gets the same benefit that you outlined for PM's, but you didn't see autostilled casters anymore because they no longer made as much sense. Once you gave someone +12 shield AC, the benefits of not wearing and having to build for a shield vs wearing a shield start to look much more attractive.

As alka pointed out, this "nerf" did make PM's more powerful giving them more dodge AC (well not giving them more, giving them back is a better way to put it) which increases their defense against touch attacks. But otherwise PM's are still vulnerable in the same ways that they were before. I like it too because casters/PM's will reach the dodge cap much more easily.

[Tru3Fals3]

actually this means that the only thing that doesnt get covered by this nerf is the problem to begin with, this doesnt effect pm dex builds at all, they lose 1ac, its bad enough that something with undead properties can cast 10,000 heals and greater resto's on itself and still gets all the benefits of being undead (immunity to crit and sneak, stun etc) without the real vunerabilities undead creatures should have (ie vunerable to heals which are positive energy which should hurt pms...) but these build now have an even greater advantage, they gain 5 dodge to replace the 6ac shield ac they lose from this nerf (while all other casters of any type lose at least 7ac), a whole 1ac less on 85ac cleric pms, call me crazy but thats not balance.

Why would I call you crazy, when I'm the crazy one! I don't think this change came about purely as a result of how powerful PM's were. Monk casters could very easily achieve PM type AC's as well, with the monk benefits of extra speed, evasion, involved too. Not quite the list of feats that a PM gets, but then you add a casters ability to drop the boom on things and suddenly you've got something much much more deadly than a PM insofar as pure killing power. I think EMA was more for pure casters to allow them to have a little bit of AC to give them a slim chance to escape someone chain kding or the possibility that an enemy caster's bigsby will miss on its initial roll. Maybe we implement it as a pure class bonus only?

An autostilled caster gets the same benefit that you outlined for PM's, but you didn't see autostilled casters anymore because they no longer made as much sense. Once you gave someone +12 shield AC, the benefits of not wearing and having to build for a shield vs wearing a shield start to look much more attractive.

As alka pointed out, this "nerf" did make PM's more powerful giving them more dodge AC (well not giving them more, giving them back is a better way to put it) which increases their defense against touch attacks. But otherwise PM's are still vulnerable in the same ways that they were before. I like it too because casters/PM's will reach the dodge cap much more easily.

actually it nerfed my still spelling sorc too, with divine shield its completely redundant. i end up with less ac on him aswell, YAY! i dont really care that this nerfed my builds, used to that, ill build around it, i care that this nerf missed the builds that needed it most.

since when do 99% of pm builds come close to the dodge cap anyways (4gith, 5boots, 5song), not a hell of a lot more is gonna add to that.

[cRaZy8or5e]

actually it nerfed my still spelling sorc too, with divine shield its completely redundant. i end up with less ac on him aswell, YAY! i dont really care that this nerfed my builds, used to that, ill build around it, i care that this nerf missed the builds that needed it most.

since when do 99% of pm builds come close to the dodge cap anyways (4gith, 5boots, 5song), not a hell of a lot more is gonna add to that.

Divine shield/dodge capping AC sorc builds are exactly what I was getting at (EDIT: read casters/PM's as casters AND PM's.) They didn't have the built in weaknesses that PM's did. Don't take it as having AC taken away on your divine shield/caster build, think of it as getting a feat back. How's that for the "bright side of life?"

EDIT 2: You can still build a monk/sorc/divine shield class over 80 AC, no big deal.

[Tru3Fals3]

actually it nerfed my still spelling sorc too, with divine shield its completely redundant. i end up with less ac on him aswell, YAY! i dont really care that this nerfed my builds, used to that, ill build around it, i care that this nerf missed the builds that needed it most.

since when do 99% of pm builds come close to the dodge cap anyways (4gith, 5boots, 5song), not a hell of a lot more is gonna add to that.

Divine shield/dodge capping AC sorc builds are exactly what I was getting at (EDIT: read casters/PM's as casters AND PM's.) They didn't have the built in weaknesses that PM's did. Don't take it as having AC taken away on your divine shield/caster build, think of it as getting a feat back. How's that for the "bright side of life?"

EDIT 2: You can still build a monk/sorc/divine shield class over 80 AC, no big deal.

still doesnt hit pms, the ac is just stupid on them, forgot the whole crit/sneak/stun immune undead properties (yet can still take greater restos and full heals despite suppossedly being vunerable to positive energy) that no other caster gets, nothing can get the crazy ac that they get now (def not with the same benefits), it lowered the bar for builds that were competitive against them in that regard while keeping them on the same level.

you cant tell me that having a sorc with 76ac is overpowered without agreeing that a crit/stun/sneak immune cleric with 80+ ac isnt.

like i said, once again, i dont care that it hit me, i care that it didn't hit the builds that really need it.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

i hate this change. that's just all there is to it. i'll just throw mine away.

- glow -

[Alkapwn]

Truth yer a little off topic here lol.