Epic Mage Armor nerf........

[Shhhhhhh]

68 AB to start with? And I guess this char still has high enough saves to stop any disabling spell?

[burrahobbit]

A 34 ac pure wizard should be able to handle most chars one on one. wizzies/sorcy's are not like making a pure bard which takes little skill to build and even less to play. Your build might be just fine, maybe you just don't know how to play it.

I think casters are crazy overpowered as it is, i understand how you guys think i am crazy, you just haven't seen a mage played as it should be. There is some skill involved in some builds, mages are one of them. So far i haven't come across very many players who know how to play a mage and it makes me happy, i wouldn't want anyone teaching the populace on what they are doing wrong. If you think crazyhorse can be annoying on a cleric build, you should see what he can do with a pure sorc.

What i see you arguing for is a buff to mages that will make the poor/mediocre players competitive, and the good players by default near unstoppable. I guess what i am saying here is that mages don't need ac to win. Sure they cant win against every build, but thats the way it should be. If you cant win against *any* build then its your own fault. This post is coming across very insulting and i am not trying to insult anyone, its just the way i see it.

Mages should be glass cannons, not MBT's

For these tensors builds that are upset about a possible change to ema, i feel your pain, but they still make excellent spotters and you can always fall back on your timestop spamming right? Lets throw in some timestop crystals as well.

[Eldaquen]

I for one liked the time stop crystals....shinny. Had lots of them pre-wipe....again shinny, kinda like diamond's fire when like hits them just right...like a prism. Guess good thing they are gone though...they would just clutter up my packs worse than they already are. Last thing I need is another item to hoard, oops mule file size too big again...sigh...what to should I sell ...

Would you please at least put them back in as a large uncut diamond...worth about 25,000 gold... , I'll just make another mule account; thanks

[OpalimTeGolim]

Another addition for your list renard

1) Dogmatic claim (after ignoring 12 pages of discussion): AC 34 should be enough for wizards.
2) Proof: Very few ppl can actually play such wiz, therefore people don't know how to play wizards.
3) Conclusion: AC 34 should be enough for wizards.

I mean, really... after 12 pages of discussion with detailed explanation and examples what wiz can and can not do, you come and say that ac 34 should be enough and that ppl just can't play them?

Let me guess... your main toons are in TC/NC, right?

P.S.
I don't have anything against TC/NC. I think that some of the nicest ppl are there, I like them and party with them often. And I am sorry you guys don't have wizards/sorcs there.

P.P.S.
You rarely fight 1 on 1 during relic raids.

[renarð]

Svirf
2 ftr, 13 rogue, 25 wm

67 ab (with prayer pot, and cats)
67 ac (with cats)
epic dodge and blinding speed

47 fort vs spells
53 reflex vs spells
47 will vs spells

No outside buffs, no scrolls or pots besides cats and prayer. Thus this character won't fail a save even after a dispell.

I don't even need to use bard, pally, cot, bg, monk, or have in-class spellcraft skill which makes it absurdly easy.

The problem is raids almost always have a bard and that means an easy 3-4 to all your saves and ac/ab or more. Thus I could actually pick whatever race I wanted, dump some of my save feats and be rocking over 70 ac, 70 ab with epic dodge and be immune to spells with saves as long as someone was singing.

[Daltian]

P.P.S.
You rarely fight 1 on 1 during relic raids.

Yes, its usualy 1 vs. 25 from AO/RK.

[Daltian]

The problem is raids almost always have a bard and that means an easy 3-4 to all your saves and ac/ab or more. Thus I could actually pick whatever race I wanted, dump some of my save feats and be rocking over 70 ac, 70 ab with epic dodge and be immune to spells with saves as long as someone was singing.

You fail to look at things from real perspective, as you will have bard in your pary, enemy also will so he will curse you and your saves will go down. Please start being realistic.

[OpalimTeGolim]

Point of that post was that you don't need bard to make toon immune to spells. Renard's build did not use any of standard cheeses to get saves higher (monk lvls, spellcraft as calss lvl) and his saves are crazy high. In fact, all classes in his build have only reflex as primary save (which is not what protects against implosions or death spells). With SR 45, you have good chance of avoiding some IGMS and fists too.

And lol @ your remark about raids

[Daltian]

47 fort vs spells
53 reflex vs spells
47 will vs spells

No outside buffs, no scrolls or pots besides cats and prayer. Thus this character won't fail a save even after a dispell.

Also since your will wil be 21 or 22 to start with and there is +20 cap to bonus to saves, you need to reconsider that statement you made.

I am sorry to break your buble, but you are simply wrong.

[burrahobbit]

Another addition for your list renard

1) Dogmatic claim (after ignoring 12 pages of discussion): AC 34 should be enough for wizards.
2) Proof: Very few ppl can actually play such wiz, therefore people don't know how to play wizards.
3) Conclusion: AC 34 should be enough for wizards.

I mean, really... after 12 pages of discussion with detailed explanation and examples what wiz can and can not do, you come and say that ac 34 should be enough and that ppl just can't play them?

Let me guess... your main toons are in TC/NC, right?

P.S.
I don't have anything against TC/NC. I think that some of the nicest ppl are there, I like them and party with them often. And I am sorry you guys don't have wizards/sorcs there.

P.P.S.
You rarely fight 1 on 1 during relic raids.

Your right, after 12 pages i stopped reading most of this stuff cause you are simply wrong. You have no idea what your talking about and there is nothing i can do about that. I'm not going to teach you how to kill me. My main toons are in MA, not NC, but that's ok, how would you know. I tend to discuss from a NC point of view because its fun for me to claim that every change screws over NC in the hope that it annoys tep.

1 on 1 fights or 20 on 1 is completely irrelevant.

[renarð]

A cap of +20 exists on saving throws increased by means of magical equipment, spells or spell-like feats. There is no limit however on increases to saving throws from feats (example Iron Will or from abilities (a constitution score increased via the endurance spell or potion from 20 to 22 subsequently increases the base fortitude save from 5 to 6). Also bonuses from Divine Grace or Dark Blessing do not count towards the cap. The bonuses from Sacred Defense however do.

16 base is lowest (will)
5 from feats
2 from race (leto)
7 from stats
means I don't cap out until 50 (well really 52 if I use owl's)

thank you come again.

[frogofpeace]

The bonuses from Sacred Defense however do.

Once again, NC gets the short end of the stick - ROGUES FOR DAERON!

[Alkapwn]

The bonuses from Sacred Defense however do.

Once again, NC gets the short end of the stick - ROGUES FOR DAERON!

I'lll trade MA's Rogues for your CoTs anyday

[Ajantis.]

Don't get off topic here....


How about a Cot for a PM?


Lets not ruin a good discussion now....

[Korr]

Maybe I should come back and play karate a few days a week. . . shes an amazing wizard and was only a test!