Necrotic Cradle

[Frendel]

In the Player's Handbook II there is mention of a special hidden place in the Abyss known as the Necrotic Cradle. This is a place designed specifically for rebuilding toons. Like most of you I've noticed in my few years here that you can't build a toon without expecting it to be nerfed or changed in a major way which will render that toon useless for what you built it for. It's just a matter of time, but it will happen.

So, in an effort to prevent a month or more (depending on ecl, real life issues, etc.) of playing a toon up to 40 from being totally wasted when someone decides to change classes around, why don't we provide a way of at least having a chance to fix these useless toons? The Player's Handbook II suggests that you have to have a high knowledge check to even know about it so, perhaps a somewhat fair way of handling it would be to have a party member make a high lore check with the mob that handles your releveling to open the options. Also it should be deep in the Abyss so it is a real challenge for a group to get there. Probably a high search check would be needed to find the door to it. Perhaps additionally a group of items could be needed to get in, such as the case with Dragon Plane. Also, I think you should have to be level 40 to do this. No realizing that you made a mistake at 35 with your build and going to the Necrotic Cradle right away to fix it (even if you could somehow run there solo). Finishing out to 40 makes it more fair.

This would of course only delevel you to 1, not 0. You would not be able to reassign your starting stats, 1st level feats, or skill points. Then you would receive 780,000 xp and be on your merry way back into the Abyss.

Concerning books already in your build, I would say that they should be lost/erased from your toon if you rebuild, but you should be able to put fresh books into it when you rebuild at critical points in leveling (i.e. an Int book at level 10 to get max Skill Points out of it).

Sorry if this suggestion is blasphemy, but I believe it wouldn't hurt the server to have something like this.

Thanks

[Daltian]

I can already see people taking the first level the way they need it for the final toon and then for the rest going with whatever is easyest to level. Then go to abyss and rebuild the toon into something that is super hard to level. Thats only first idea that came to mind after 1 minute. I am sure the population of NS would find many more ways to use it for unfair advantage. So I say no. And thats coming from a person that has 2x lvl 35 toons that would benefit rebuild and one of them ecl 3.

[Frendel]

Fair enough. Perhaps the rebuild should make you totally lose faction which affects completed jobs (if my memory serves) and ally status so you would have to return your relic home several times to regain favor with your faction and likewise with your allied faction. Defending your relic or your allies relic with that toon would be very very difficult until then since your own and allied defender NPCs would attack you on sight.

This should help to hinder the unfair quickness of exploiting things like favored class bonuses or hardiness of certain builds I think.

[Cluster]

Rebuilding is something i've never been against. Other games i've played have had this feature. One thing that it allows you to do is while leveling you can aim to be PvM, then you can rebuild at 40 to be more PvP based. From what i have seen, the idea seems to be 'taboo' around here, as if it was some cheap exploit instead of a neat feature.

From a programmer's perspective, implementing is not quite as simple. Doing the whole abyss thing is not so difficult. It's more the fact that deleveling in some cases can bring about certain issues (RDD comes to mind).

To do a few quick pros/cons...

Pros
- The biggest of all that i can think of is that builds used in PvP will be better. Most players out there that PvP alot made mistakes in their build and may not have the time to relvl another toon that is a near duplicate with minor tweaks.

- Nerfs are easier to deal with. For almost the same reasons as above, builds can be tweaked to deal with nerfs.

- Players could build specifically for PvM while leveling and gearing up, then rebuild for PvP. (Maybe the bosses could be made difficult instead of complete pushovers!)

Cons
- Dev time. Lots of dynamics to take into account.

- You would have to make it not so difficult for the average player to have access. Putting it at the bottom of the abyss with a bunch of skill/class requirements and a party of 5+ to get too restricts this to those that are capable of getting there.

The major feature here is that in general the build quality across the server will increase by at least an order of magnitude. It can't be restricted by some difficult quest as then it is not easily available to all (Though extortion comes to mind... ). A cost of some sort is definetly needed. Wether a lump some of gold or some high lvl quest items (maybe something from every plane).

Like i said though, i like the idea, but i think the main thing you will have to convince others of is that this has feature that helps the mass of the server, and is not an exploit for a few.

[VagaStorm]

Like i said though, i like the idea, but i think the main thing you will have to convince others of is that this has feature that helps the mass of the server, and is not an exploit for a few.

I like the idea, and I always mess up my builds, but hiding it in far reaces of the abys makes it a perk for the ones that already can get large groups in prime time to lvl toons. Not for the ones that need it the most :p

[Daltian]

It doesn't matter if it helps or not, if it's exploitable it will be done. And at certain moment it will be required by all to use that exploit to remain competitive. In the end you will need to plan even further, taking into account even abyss delevel feature, to build well. I stay we keep it way it is now and plan the characters as we level them up. No help to the slackers.

[Cluster]

Like i said though, i like the idea, but i think the main thing you will have to convince others of is that this has feature that helps the mass of the server, and is not an exploit for a few.

I like the idea, and I always mess up my builds, but hiding it in far reaces of the abys makes it a perk for the ones that already can get large groups in prime time to lvl toons. Not for the ones that need it the most :p

That was part of my point. I dont like sticking it somewhere that only a select group can get to, as it just makes them more powerful. Something like this would need to be open to all. Which doesn't necessarily mean you walk up to an NPC and have it drop you to level one and give you 780k xp, but there could be something involved that would take a decent amount of time, be doable by the majority, and would keep people from just re-rolling at will.

As for exploits. The one major thing that comes to mind is the RDD stat bonuses, and making sure they don't get duplicated. (Seen my fair share of 200 str toons...). Other than that, there's no real 'exploit'. It's not really that much different than what you would be doing while leveling. The one major thing i can see that is obvious would be books, but even then there's nothing majorly exploitable about having +4 books on any of your starts when rolling from level 2. Sure some feats require a certain ability score, but normally your working that into your starting stats anyway...

As for helping the slackers, well i dont see a valid point in that. The first and most obvious thing is that you need to hit 40 to begin with. And like i stated above, there should be something involved where you end up spending some time gathering some items. I think it would be neat if you had to obtain something from every plane before your able re-reroll.

If it's done right, it could really add a whole new flavor to the game. People would actually spend time making PvM builds AND PvP builds.

One other thing i'd like to point out is what this could do for the lesser used skills. PvP builds are not going to put points into persuasion skills/feats, which are extremely underutilized here, but if given the chance to reroll, and there were quests(yes i said it... quests!) that used these skills, then you might just see them used, maybe...

[diddy33]

DM's won't do it, because then nerfing your 40's wouldn't be as much fun if you could just go somewhere and fix it. . they want to make your 40 totally useless. just hope you had a caster of some sort so you could use those 40 levels for scrolls or maybe even crafting.

[frogofpeace]

It's about the journey, not the destination.

[Cluster]

It's about the journey, not the destination.

And for some the journey starts at lvl 40.

[Shhhhhhh]

Love the idea

[cRaZy8or5e]

Mistakes in a build give it character.

[DM_Kim]

Pssst diddy33 it's dev's not DM's that do the nerfing. to prove it watch this.

I want my old Kobold Commado back with it's short sword!!!

Anyway I do like the idea, but I have seen screw-ups in regular building where levels of a class doesn't show on the player's character screen. Where a character got so bugged with jobs that it has to be deleted and remade, where someone has taken the wrong class at a high level - deleveled and then could not finish building to 40 because the character is perma bugged and now has to be deleted and remade. All of these problems, not have I only seen, but they have happened to my PC's at one time or another through my time here and still pop up on others.

I thing with everything that has gone into the dev end of our PC's having something like a rebuild adjuster would cause more problems. I would find it frustrating to get deep into the abyss, hit the switch only to discover that your once level 40 now can not be made back to level 40 and now is only good for deletion.

Nice idea though.

[diddy33]

Pssst diddy33 it's dev's not DM's that do the nerfing. to prove it watch this.
.

Sorry, meant Devs. but i'm sure you DM's get at least alittle enjoyment out of it lol

[DM_Kim]

Hehehehe I would roughly guess that some do. I still want my Commando back.

And just wait until I find out who put Saddle Soap on the Air Dragon's back. Sold all my armor, weapons and old heal pots on my level 9 in a shop outside of Ave at night thinking I get a better price, hopped on a Dragon and fell off some place 4 zones behind Evershire. Then it was Run for your Life time.