Divine Might

[Brionn_Unbound]

Korr- you are the kind of player I left NS4 to avoid. NWN has never been balanced. It sounds to me that you are bein' spanked in pvp and cannot find a counter strategy to your loss. I was hoping my sabbatical was going to be short term, But it would appear that it may be quite permanent Figure I better post something before this thread is locked.

[frogofpeace]

So I don't understand your point. NC is an uber powerful build because it has CoT? That sure doesn't appear to be the case, if you consider relics ownership as a measure of a factions 'power' (hard to measure otherwise). CoT is impossible to fight? Not true. Saves aren't everything, plenty of spells with no save or that have been modified so that the saves are not reflex/will/fortitude based, as well as special abilities or attacks that aren't countered by those saves. Mage/non-mage balance is off? You don't need a CoT or even a high-save pali, BG, or monk to beat implosion. Anyway, casters are still MUCH more powerful than any melee class.

[frogofpeace]

So I'm don't understand how CoT is imbalanced. NC is an uber powerful faction because it has CoT? That sure doesn't appear to be the case, if you consider relics ownership as a measure of a factions 'power' (hard to measure otherwise). CoT is impossible to fight? Not true. Saves aren't everything, plenty of spells with no save or that have been modified so that the saves are not reflex/will/fortitude based, as well as special abilities or attacks that aren't countered by those saves. Mage/non-mage balance is off? You don't need a CoT or even a high-save pali, BG, or monk to beat implosion. Anyway, casters are still MUCH more powerful than any melee class.

I agree with Nyeleni - devs will ultimately decide what balance means, and we've all voiced our opinions.

[Lokey]

Balance means level 20, maybe low 20s max.

Show of hands?

[Brionn_Unbound]

lvl30 cap would be a start. We could even start to rp our conflicts ig ,but who am I?

[Tsavong]

I've had a play with a pally CoT offline to see what all this fuss is about and I must be missing something as it didn't seem to have 'E V E R Y T H I N G' it was a good offensive build but its divine wrath even after 30 lvls didn't last a long amount of time. So I must be missing something as I fail to see what the fuss is about.

[Nyeleni]

Yeah, offline its not the same as NS4 has some changes, but all it does is add more divine dmg (x2 to a max of 20) and a longer duration under certain circumstances (if you take extend spell ie.).
Saves are ok and the job tokens are very good too for a CoT build. But even then, it doesn't have everything, there are many classes able to take a CoT down...

[Fezz]

*raises hand* lvl 20 cap is fine with me. Maybe 25 tops.

[frogofpeace]

Not sure what a L20 cap means here ...?

Frankly, I think it's fine the way it is. Knocking a couple points off wouldn't matter one way or the other, if that's what's needed to curtail the impending NC juggernaut. If capping means limiting number of levels to 20 careful - L20 dr -/+6 dr would be MUCH less useful in PvP, unless you're also going to scale back on weapons - (though I've seen MUCH fewer even +5 weapons since the wipe )

[Fezz]

Yeah, Loki was talking about Character level cap at 20. So +4 if nothing changes would be your best gear. Thats the point after which balance goes out the window.

[disastro]

i gotta say cot is hands down the best melee class on the server. uber saves in the new saves-are-everything world, uber ab, uber damage, uber dr, uber feat list, uber ac.. all in ONE toon. and you can multiclass it! you HAVE to! monk cheese ftw.

toons that do 30-70 purely divine damage per hit. just on divine! if nc doesnt rule the world already, its not for lack of tools.

MA has way more restrictions on building and guess what: they did pretty well back in the day, and generally without pale masters. so i have no sympathy for folks with class build restrictions in their faction.

i've gotten my tank built pms spanked damage by pure pallys, and to be honest i thought it was kind of cool. yep half undead creature is going to go home hurtin if he goes up against the holiest of holies, thats how it ought to be. cots get WAY more power than pure pallys however, and double strength divine might just adds on top of that uberness.

[frogofpeace]

It is the one of the best melee class on the server, because NC has the worst casters on the server. Even the casters that are available (bard and cleric) are limited in some way. Cleric's got no offense, except as a buffer, and domains are now limited. Similarly, bards are most effective in buffing, either self or party - nothing to compare to the spells (e.g. bigsby's, igms) and abilities (e.g. crippling strike)

Max divine damage would be +35 with L30 wrath and max DM - unless I'm missing something, how do you get 70?

[Korr]

Im not asking for everything for SL. CoT is a hugely powerfull build, and Ive only fought once a CoT in PvP . . . so no getting spanked in PvP isnt it. Everyones clerics are limited in some way, and my problem is NC people are whining like they have nothing because they have no mages, and no rogues. I think they need to get over it because they have the best PrC around . . . Yes I know RDD is more than Strength.

To compare the strength of a faction by the owning of the relics has alot to do with the player base. . . most of the time when im on, there are always 3-5 DD or IO on. These are even just the tagged SL toons. . . it pays to have friends people, thats a major reason why SL has the relics all the time.

[Nyeleni]

Gimme a break, you call us whiners? We are just stating the facts...
Yes, CoT can dish out a lot of dmg, but as you said, in the end its the variation that makes the day. Yes, SL has more players on. I wonder why? NC doesnt have as many... Just because besides of CoT there isnt much around? But that is another issue.
Ive been using the CoT's advantages to the limit against you. And now you think the build is overpowered? Have you ever seen me complain about shadow caster before you started complaining about me? I dont think so, I dont have an idea how I would have to counter that one ie. Just having mages opens up a lot of possibilities. But I'm repeating myself, and we are really beating a dead horse here.
Korr, just deal with it, call some friends next time you see Eve raiding if you think you have no chance...

[frogofpeace]

Fair enough, no whining necessary - NC gets no mages, no sneaks, by design, never gonna happen, but does have a couple of really nice faction-specific PRCs and other complementary classes. I think most NC players realize this and accept it as part of the definition of the faction. I also think that the benefit for NC is balanced by the penalty. Other factions have their strengths and weaknesses.