Item Merge for Shapechange Spells

[Gornickthy]

Just a thought... how about making it so items merge in a sense for when wizards shapechange? I only mean in a sense such as spell slots and such so if a wizard uses a spell that shapechanges then the wizard does not have to redo all of his spells after. Maybe keep int. bonuses and additional spell slots from items? If such a thing were possible then I think it would make such spells all the more appealing and useful, and since you can't cast spells while in a shifted form I do not think it would unbalance anything either.

[DM_Kim]

Druids have a similar problem when they shift in that they lose slots and have to redo some of their mem spells.

As for gear merge. A wizard Shape Changes and takes on some of the properties of that shape, but remains a wizard at heart. A Druid Shifts their form becoming what they shift into and their gear goes along with it in most cases. If a Druid uses Shape Change they then are the same as a wizard who changes. (I think)

[Gornickthy]

Indeed druids do have the same problem... I fully agree with your assessment. I was just trying to think of a way to make some seldom used spells more appealing. I had an idea involving the shapechange spell, and went to test it with my mage... I will not be repeating that mistake again. It was just plain painful trying to re-slot and re-pick all the spells lost from the items not merging. Hence came the idea... I do not think that items should merge in a sense like shifters get, with the powers merging, but being able to keep int/wisdom bonuses and spell slots would make life grand for druids and wizards.

[Korr]

The few times I have used a shapechange scroll with my bard or other UMD/caster character it has screwed me royally. After I dropped the shape change I had to reequip EVERY item I was wearing because none of it was registered anymore. I am not sure if this is a glitch, or if it has been fixed or whatever. I stopped using such scrolls after that though. Dragon forn, then drop and now my armor/shield/weapon/amulet/helmet/EVERYTHING was essentially non-existant cost me more xp than I wanted.

[psibertiger14]

Well, as far as druids go, there is a way around reslotting. Always cast Owl's Insight before shifting, the wisdom bonus will give you extra spell slots so that you don't lose any of your spells from an item due to shifting. For arcane casters you are sorta out of luck as Fox's Cunning and Eagle's Splendor don't give enough of a stat boost to counter taking the item off and putting it back on, which is what happens during the shift.

[Fatzo]

agreed on this thread !

drives me up the wall when shifting...tho with a druid / shifter build usually you can configure the spells so that the ones that are going to vanish will always be kept empty so that wont be a problem ... but as far as a castable shift -- or a shifting scroll -- aye it is frustrating ...

*wonders if bioware will add such a convienence to 1.69*

*realizes that bioware is not rationale at all...therefore no such victory will be achieved*

[cRaZy8or5e]

In my experience with shapeshift and polymorph spells yeah you lose some slots. But you don't lose gear unless you were killed while shifted. A quick fix is to shift again then unshift and 'voila' all your gear will be back. Spell slots still have to be fixed and then you need to rest, but you get ur gear back on quick fast and in a hurry which is nice in case you just got rezzed in the middle of a fight.

[Gornickthy]

In my case I lost spell slots from level 1 through 9, and a lot of them. The shapechange caused me to lose the +8 int from my helm, and the bonus spell slots from at least 3 items. With all my hotkeys assigned to spells it made it a little easier to figure out what spells I had, but it still took a while to figure out and then re-slot them. I figured if this was something that could be addressed then it would help all casters on the server... and it would add more fun as wizards could explore new means to deal with their enemies and PvM situations.

[Amoenotep]

RULE #1 WHEN BUILDING A SHIFTING CHAR.

always plan your spells out in advance so that when you shift/deshift you will not have any more or less slots open than you need.

if you shift and deshift and lose 4 slots...memorize 4 less spells of that category. any player that has extisively used shifting to their benefit will tell you this. it also allows you to plan your gear accordingly to spread your self more even.

[Lorkar]

Friends don't let friends build shifters.
Its kinda like beergoggling, it seems like a good idea at the time but you always end up saying, what the F@%# was I thinking, when morning rolls around.

[Gornickthy]

RULE #1 WHEN BUILDING A SHIFTING CHAR.

always plan your spells out in advance so that when you shift/deshift you will not have any more or less slots open than you need.

if you shift and deshift and lose 4 slots...memorize 4 less spells of that category. any player that has extisively used shifting to their benefit will tell you this. it also allows you to plan your gear accordingly to spread your self more even.

That's why this was posted under ideas and suggestions. It was not something recently discovered, but it was an afterthought worth mentioning. As it stands the shapechange spell is not worth the hassle, and players agree. Complete player classes have been overhauled and "nerfed" because NS4 is a magic item heavy world, and because of that some classes seem to become more powerful. While the items have effected the classes, they have also effected many spells too. So one would think that spells might need to be adjusted for balance as well.

One major fix that to the balance of things that would solve many issues facing the server would be to reduce the power of magic items available to the world. Since that is VERY unlikely then other forms of balance should be sought... hence the ideas and suggestions thread.

[Apokriphos]

That's why this was posted under ideas and suggestions. It was not something recently discovered, but it was an afterthought worth mentioning. As it stands the shapechange spell is not worth the hassle, and players agree. Complete player classes have been overhauled and "nerfed" because NS4 is a magic item heavy world, and because of that some classes seem to become more powerful. While the items have effected the classes, they have also effected many spells too. So one would think that spells might need to be adjusted for balance as well.

One major fix that to the balance of things that would solve many issues facing the server would be to reduce the power of magic items available to the world. Since that is VERY unlikely then other forms of balance should be sought... hence the ideas and suggestions thread.

This is being looked at.

[DM_Kim]

We just might have to wait and see what 1.69 brings in, if Bioware has addressed this. I personally haven;t looked into it but like "A" said I'm sure they devs are.

[Amoenotep]

its a simple rule of thumb when using a caster...if you no longer have the casting stats required to cast that spell lvl you don't have it anymore...it doesn't magically pop out of your nose when you unshift..you lose it.

say your a wiz

someone casts a horrible spell on you that drops your int 5 pts...you lose spells and spell slots.
if you shift into another form via a spell...that creatures base int is now yours...you lose spells and spell slots

when you recover from whatever illness of having less of that stat..you need to relearn your spells because you magically have the base int to cast those spells.

be it nwn or pnp its the same...the loss is there for a reason....its because you are probably dumber when you shift than standing there.

why should an umberhulk have 50int to make up for the int a wiz loses when shifting?

[Gornickthy]

Right, but in a low magic world this is not an issue... in a high magic world it is. As it stands right now the spells that allow change for wizzies are not used very much if at all for this reason.

But, also look at it this way... shifters when assuming a shape merge items and class abilities, which is part of their special abilities as a class. Because the monk abilities were deemed to add to much power, again because of high magic items, the shifter now "forgets" and losses the wisdom modifiers. It makes no sense, but it is what it is. It was done for balance made necessary by high end items.. +6 and better really do make a difference. Now, this is just an example.. I do not want to make this into a class specific thread and start with shifter complaints... but this is a good example of necessary changes due to items in the game.

Now, when a wizard, again for example since I tested this with the wizard class, uses a spell to shapechange the wizard not only loses all the added spell slots currently, but the form is not really all that great. You claim that "if you shift into another form via a spell...that creatures base int is now yours...you lose spells and spell slots," but if this were the true sense then the caster would also assume the full range of capabilities as the creature. When I assumed dragon shape I still only had my base number of attacks and did not assume all the great things that should come with being a dragon. So now being shifted the toon loses all forms of spell casting and item using, loses spell slots, and has very little gain from using a 9th level spell.

I see your point, and am more than happy to debate this issue since I have seen this spell work VERY well for other casters on low magic servers. It is all but useless on NS4 as it is right now, but there is a way to make it useful, and still not unbalance the world. I think wizards should be more than IGMS and Bigby spams. This would open more doors to caasters and add a lot of flavor to the game in my opinion.