Should I Spot Or Not?

disastro · Post by **disastro** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:45 pm

can anyone relate their experiences with Spot in pvp? I'm considering adding it to a listener build, but the math on the back of my napkin says spot might be kind of a waste.

assuming access to true seeing + clair, +10 spot helm, epic skill spot, etc. the max spot i can reach seems to be short of what's needed to see the garden variety ranger/bard/ghostwise hider. (about 20% success rate per round, and i know from experience this rate will hose your ability to target them round to round.)

i can get spot into striking distance of these builds by dropping 3 MORE feats into divination, but that's too expensive for my tastes given the marginal utility of diviniation otherwise (non-wizard so feats are more at a premium).

any battle scarred Spotters out there with war stories?

Post by **LinuxPup** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:01 pm

Tips for spotter:

1. Bring a bard with you.

2. Wisdom-based: Wisdom modifier can help a lot.

3. Elf (Keen sense is VERY good to have).

4. Aasimar. Not available to everyone, but can potentially be a good spotter as long as your target is nearby.

A wild elf zen archer with knowledge domain, epic spell focus divination, and epic skill focus spot, can spot any player on the server... even if they have two epic rings of shadows.

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:48 pm

LinuxPup wrote: A wild elf zen archer with knowledge domain, epic spell focus divination, and epic skill focus discipline, can spot any player on the server... even if they have two epic rings of shadows.

damn you dont tell people my builds lol

Nyeleni · Post by **Nyeleni** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:23 pm

I still wonder, what esf discipline has to do with spotting

. I guess it should be spot heh.

Post by **LinuxPup** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:24 pm

Oops... edited.

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:30 pm

Since you brought up epic rings of shadow...are they still available? Or...have they gone the way of the dodo bird? If so...that means those with them hold a significant advantage in the hide game. If you dont have a wild elf zen archer with ESF spot and ESF divination and knowledge domain that is.

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:28 pm

dragon build spots all!- and crashes all!

Nefarious · Post by **Nefarious** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:23 am

and crashes all!

You are truly wrong on that account, I have a druid dragon and when i die it doesnt usually (like 80 percent of time) crash the server, I'm not saying being in shifted form doesn't crash the server. It seems to crash server when there are hardly any buffs on for me is when it crashes server.

Here is a idea to have some balance in sd's since there seems to be a influx of them coming on this server, more then usual, is when I go to another server they have a 6 second timer on when you can rehips again.

Just some good wholesum food for thought.

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:19 am

i kinda like the timer idea, it could help with sd related crashes aswell.

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:15 am

the timer is a good idea .. good enough to be coded in NWN2 infact

this prevents the SD spam abuse but i dont know if its possible in NWN mechanics to do so if it is the devs would of prolly already made it so

SD are popular because it takes a very specific and purposfuly built toon to counter them once more people have such toons we will see far fiewer SD roaming the lands i bet

Rant/
and for thoes of you who play them constantly i say learn to use a diffrent build occasionaly often i log in to see 4 6 8 ftr bard SD builds all on at once yes its a good build but realy give it a rest already and learn to fight without hips covering your short comings as a player its like gulping healing potions it does not show your skills as a player just your lack thereof
/rant

disastro · Post by **disastro** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:56 am

from what i've read hips is hardcoded and can not be changed server side. implementing such a timer would require a client side hak.

I think the devs here are 100% against ANY client side haks, a design goal is to have the server be playable by anybody right away without having to d/l anything.

requiring one VERY specific build (elf wisdom based 3 div feats partied with a bard) to counter hide items seems lopsided. By my calculations such a build would only be ~25% effective (130+ spot) vs a ghostwise (140+ hide) or sd with enough brains to umd a few ranger scrolls.

I'm not familiar with all the items in the game tho so my math may be way off.

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:03 pm

shifters bards druids, anything that can summon and buff a solar and the build you mentioned can spot a hipser.

i dont play one but i think the reason alot do is the relic game. its easier to run a relic if your enemy cant see you. its easier to run a relic if your a pure monk and your enemy cant catch you. maybe these toons were build for that reason?

whatever the reason i dont think someone making a build that can pwn alot of others is in anyway comparable to drinking pots....

saying it shows peoples short comings because they make an sd i cannot agree with.

disastro · Post by **disastro** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:29 pm

to keep this from straying into already-hashed hips territory lets keep the focus on whether +spot items are in line with +hide items, and whether or not they ought to be.

right now listen seems competitive with move silent whereas spot does not seem competitive with hide (assuming both sides have access to bard song + buff spells etc, racial bonuses aside)

Post by **Binkyuk** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:53 pm

Mmm, there are no hooks on hiding or PC detecting so it's very tough to do anything about for PvP. I've seen a couple of 'solutions' but one involves an on-hit script and another a heartbeat for every PC, both of which would kill the server.
I suppose we could strip the feat with leto and do 'something else', but I don't have any good ideas as to what.

disastro · Post by **disastro** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:08 pm

strip the feat, give every sd a token, and control it that way? turn it into a standard action vs what it is now. (even the paper and pen rules are vague on how hips works exactly, our dm house ruled that it took a move action to accomplish for much the same reasons its a problem here).

still powerful, still uber, but reduces some of the cheese factor.