Question for the players ;)

Joran · Post by **Joran** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:01 pm

Hey guys, was hoping one of you could clear something up for me. I need to know what exactly is required to bypass resistances provided by stoneskin and the like. It was my impression that you need an enhancement bonus of equal value in order to bypass the resistance (in other words, for +3/x soak you need to have a weapon with +3 Enhancement to get past it).

There has been some speculation, however, that an actual enhancement bonus isn't required, all you need is an attack bonus. Can anyone confirm or deny this? For example, if you have a +2 weapon and cast Bless, can you bypass +3 soak?

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:15 pm

I just tried it.
I equiped a monster with +3/20 armor.
I gave my guy 3 battle axes, normal, +3 enhance, +3 ab.
The normal one got soaked.
The other two skipped the soak.

So +3 attack bonus on a weapon will skip +3/X soak.

Gonna test adding bless to a +2 ab weapon now.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:22 pm

Tested a +2ab weapon with bless vs +3/20 armor and the first 20 damage was soaked.

Also tested enhance weapon (+1) with a +2 ab weapon, and the damage was again soaked.

Revenge · Post by **Revenge** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:44 pm

Yes, the weapon itself needs a high enough bonus, except for creature claws which take their enhancement bonus from the creatures damage resistance instead. For instance if you give a dragon soak +5/30 damage, then his creature claws will act as if they were +5 weapons, letting the dragon bypass any soak on their target up to +5.

Apart from this exception, the currently used weapon needs to give the user an extra 5 points in an attack bonus. Attack bonuses and enhancement bonuses definately definately do this, damage bonuses do not. I haven't been able to test this, but I do get the feeling that if a sword had dex/str +6 on it, it'd count as a +3 attack bonus and allow you to bypass +3 resistance, but that is just pure speculation (and quite likely wrong).

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:47 pm

I don't think the +6 str would bypass +3/x soak... but i'll go test right now.

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:47 pm

What about the +2 weapon with Bless?
What about the +2 weapon with Aid?
What about the +2 weapon with Prayer?
What about the +2 weapon with Bard song?
What about the +2 weapon with CoT abilities?

Weapon focus, Epic Prowess, Weaponmaster bonus... anything else?

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:52 pm

Tested the +6 str on a weapon and on armor... Damage was soaked in both cases.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:53 pm

Shasz wrote:What about the +2 weapon with Bless?
What about the +2 weapon with Aid?
What about the +2 weapon with Prayer?
What about the +2 weapon with Bard song?
What about the +2 weapon with CoT abilities?

Weapon focus, Epic Prowess, Weaponmaster bonus... anything else?

I already tried that, scroll back up and read my 2nd post.

Revenge · Post by **Revenge** » Tue May 04, 2004 6:24 pm

JesterOI wrote:Tested the +6 str on a weapon and on armor... Damage was soaked in both cases.

You mean you wore a weapon that had a +6 str bonus on it, and you were not a dex fighter? If you were wearing +4 str weap and +2 str armor, then the weapon would only be improving your attack bonus by 2 (and the armor would be improving it by 1)

EDIT: then if +2 enhance and +1 bless doesn't make it +3 on the weapon, why would +6 str do it?

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 04, 2004 6:36 pm

I created a fighter using the Recommended button
I created 2 items. 1 battle axe and 1 chain shirt.
I put +6 str on both items.
Then I wore one at a time and attacked a +3/20 creature.
Damage was soaked both times.

+str items don't provide any advantage to skipping soak, but do provide an advantage in bashing through it.

Mokihana · Post by **Mokihana** » Tue May 04, 2004 6:45 pm

joran i was under the impresion and i bet dv can back me up that stone skin absorbs the first 10 pts of damage until it has taken a total of 100 points at which time it goes away and greater stone skin was the first 20 points until it takes 200 pts total. this is physical damage only.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:07 pm

Stoneskin is +5/10 damage reduction that lasts for 100 points of damage. Greater is +5/20 for 200 points as Moki said. Damage Reduction from any source applies to only physical damage. What Joran is asking is: what makes an attack considered +5?

Even considering the notion that getting a + to STR would allow you to bypass soak is silly. Same with foci from feats. It's just not in the engine as those are considered non-magical boni. I understand that a magical + to str is actually magical, but it's only to bolster strength... and the str bonus to AB is not magical itself.

A magical + to AB has always allowed you to bypass soak in NWN, but I believe only the highest bonus is considered. I.e. if you have a +2 weapon against the +3 soak and you cast bless it will be soaked. If you cast bless, aid, and since a level 1 bardsong it'll still be soaked. Casting Divine Favour when it gives you +2 along with the rest of those won't breach the soak, but casting Divine favour at a level that gives you +3 or higher will.

So while all those spells stack in regards to AB they don't in regards to breaching reduction.

At least that's my theory. I haven't yet tested it extensively but past experience leads me to believe it. Proof that I'm wrong is welcomed. :)

Edit: It is my belief (regardless of how it's actually done) that Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon should only set your enhancement bonus to the specified number if higher than the natural enchantment not be used to increase it by their specified amount. I.e. A +3 sword getting MW or GMW (up to +3) should see no effect while GMW giving +4 or +5 should set the weapon at +4 or +5 respectively for the duration. If that's how it currently works, good. If not I'd consider it broken heh

Mokihana · Post by **Mokihana** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:33 pm

but would you agree that a wm with a great axe or greatsword wil blow through the 100 points in no time. as well as darkfire damage would go right through it.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:50 pm

Well yeah. But that isn't the point of this thread. :) A DEX rogue with a short sword will take a little more time than a pure STR Scythe WM. Stoneskin can effectively double or triple a mage's HP when the attacker can't breach it. Are you going to tell me that isn't useful at all? :)

Mokihana · Post by **Mokihana** » Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 pm

hehe give me my clord hammer and sabars protector and... oh yeah sorry lol