Requirements for Master Artisan Fletching and message...

Myrdyr · Post by **Myrdyr** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:24 am

I started getting the message "You find it increasingly more difficult to further your crafting abilities" after my Artisan Fletcher had about 3k or so trade skill experience. Prior to this, the message I got when checking my trade skill experience indicated that either enough real time hadn't passed since I became Artisan, or once enough time had passed, that I just needed more experience. What does this message mean and why did it change from the same location?

I've asked in game, and no one knows. Many think it indicates that my character cannot become Master Artisan. There's also a great deal of confusion about what it takes to become Master Artisan, even from players that have Master Artisan characters. I figured I might as well try to get this cleared up since it is related.

Many people think that you have to have 19 class levels (in the class eligible for Master Artisan) to become Master Artisan, though you need 15 character levels for Artisan and some classes that make you eligible for Master Artisan can never have 19 class levels (Harper). I think this is just confusion caused by most players making single-class characters for tradeskills. So, can a Harper really become a Master Artisan Fletcher at character level 19?

Some people think that if your character has a class that cannot go beyond Artisan alone, then that character can never become Master Artisan. For instance a Druid/Bard couldn't go beyond Artisan Leather, and a Bard/Sorcerer cannot go beyond Artisan Arcane (granted, the documentation says "Bards cannot attain Master Artisan" but nowhere is there any other limit mentioned other than that of the classes that cannot go beyond level 3 crafting). So, can a Druid/Bard become a Master Artisan Leather? What about Bard/Sorcerer for Arcane?

Post by **Lokey** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

That message should mean you picked a class that disqualifies you from going further in that skill. Mostly this is cleric, paladin, probably most of the prestige classes (it's been a while...I'll look over and verify). The logic is taking a class that has reqs like proselytizing and so on already have uber bonuses in whichever area.

What are your character's classes and levels in same?

(I'm guessing that the wait time and level checks are working ok still, there is a lot of messy logic involved and I wasn't so hot with NWscript when I wrote it... Also the system is open ended to allow a lot of other things to be done, but I don't think this is one of the top areas that need dev attention right now. It wouldn't take long to go through and do a cleanup and fix the rough areas...I could be persuaded to come out of NWN retirement to look at it.)

Myrdyr · Post by **Myrdyr** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:40 pm

So if my character is ineligible for Master Artisan, then it's a bug that when I became Artisan, I got messages that I could continue to Master Artisan. If my character is eligible, then the message that it's getting harder is a bug. Either way, there's a bug that should be documented.

Okay, here's a third example, plus the other two fleshed out:

1) Harper 5, Wizard 14 - Can this become Master Artisan Fletcher at level 19?

2) Bard 4, Sorcerer 15 - Can this become Master Artisan Arcane at level 19?

3) Bard 2, Rogue 8, Arcane Archer 9 - Can this become Master Artisan Fletcher at level 19?

No matter what, it's pretty clear that the documentation needs to be updated. I'll be happy to suggest some changes or additions after I get these questions answered.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:55 pm

Myrdyr wrote:1) Harper 5, Wizard 14 - Can this become Master Artisan Fletcher at level 19?

Probably not. Harper Scout can never progress past level 5, and a wizard can't get to MA fletching. Like I said last night, I believe the system requires 19 levels in a single class; and all the characters I've gotten to MA Artisan have been single classed.

2) Bard 4, Sorcerer 15 - Can this become Master Artisan Arcane at level 19?

No. If I understand the system correctly, the character needs to be Sorcerer 19 to advance. Also, from what I've heard there is a bug preventing sorcerers from reaching MA Artisan. Two people a least in my guild have had difficulty hitting MA Arcane, and they're playing sorcerers. However, my Wizard 19 hit MA Arcane the other day with no problems, and I've heard other wizard players say they've had no problems. One of my guild members said he told Netrom about the matter, who said he'd look into it.

3) Bard 2, Rogue 8, Arcane Archer 9 - Can this become Master Artisan Fletcher at level 19?

No, again, I think the character needs to be AA 19 before getting MA Fletching.
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Myrdyr · Post by **Myrdyr** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:13 pm

Elagneros is of the "it requires 19 class levels" opinion.

To clarify what does work: Doing no multiclassing at all and having 19 levels in a class that allows Master Artisan works by all accounts I've heard. The question is this the only way to become Master Artisan and if so, why is it not documented that way? Why are Harpers mentioned at all if it's impossible for them to become Master Artisans?

Post by **Lokey** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:38 pm

Remember, when I made the crappy system that there was no way to have prestige classes in NWN without replacing one of the base classes

Some updates by various devs to include them, but true, the documentation wasn't updated well.

Don't quote me, but for master artisan (No feats required. Rangers, Harpers, and Arcane Archers can achieve Master Artisan), it's the combination of ranger, harper and/or aa levels that have to exceed 19, not just a 19 hitdie character with a smattering of one or more of those classes.

Myrdyr · Post by **Myrdyr** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:33 pm

Lokey wrote:Don't quote me, but for master artisan (No feats required. Rangers, Harpers, and Arcane Archers can achieve Master Artisan), it's the combination of ranger, harper and/or aa levels that have to exceed 19, not just a 19 hitdie character with a smattering of one or more of those classes.

Thanks! This makes sense. Any way to confirm? I've heard something slightly different as well. (I think the tradeskill system is very well done actually, though I really hope you're wrong for all of us Arcane Archers trying to become Master Artisans.)

So, how to document it?

If a character has one or more levels in Assassin, Blackguard, Cleric, CoT, Dwarven Defender, RDD, Paladin, Palemaster, or Shadowdancer, then that character cannot become more that a Craftsman (Level 3) in any tradeskill. Otherwise the character can advance to at least Level 4 (what's this level called?).

To become an Artisan (Level 5) in a specific tradeskill, the character must have a total of 15 class levels combined from one or more of the classes eligible for Artisan or Master Artisan for that tradeskill.

EG: A character with 12 druid levels and 3 bard levels can become a Artisan in Leather because bards are eligible for Artisan and druids eligible for Master Artisan. A character with 13 bard levels and 2 barbarian levels can only become a Level 4 in Leather because barbarians are not eligible for Artisan.

To become a Master Artisan (Level 6), the character must have have a total of 19 class levels combined from one or more of the classes eligible for Master Artisan for that tradeskill.

EG: A character with 9 ranger levels, 1 wizard level, and 10 arcane archer levels can become a Master Artisan in Fletching because rangers and arcane archers are both eligible for Master Artisan. A character with 9 bard levels and 10 arcane archer levels can only become an Artisan in Fletching because bards are not eligible for Master Artisan.

Myrdyr · Post by **Myrdyr** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:25 pm

Bump.

I ran into a player with the same problem, except he was crafting exotic weapons. I wish I had written down his character build, because it sounded like he somehow became an Artisan illegally (he didnt have enough fighter levels) and he was confused as to why his character couldn't progress further.

Milkman99 · Post by **Milkman99** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:01 pm

ok it is a little confusing but here goes, mu understanding is to not take any other class that cannot rech MA until u r 19th in class(s) that can.

for example leather working- ranger and Druid are the only classes to go MA, so therefore u need 19lvls of ranger druid or ranger druid (13/6 for eg) as soon as u take certain classes like cleric, paladin, shadowdancer etc etc u cannot progress from that point in crafting regardless of lvls.

so in the above example if im building a ranger/SD i do not take any SD levels until im 19th ranger then i can take my 1st SD lvl.

BTW i also understand that u cant go ranger 16 lvls shadow dancer 5 then go back and make ranger 19th and get to MA leatherworking because again SD is never allowed past master craftsman or artisan so this is why most ppl are going single classed atleast till 19th lvl wichever than taking other classes

Hope this helps

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:43 pm

Well, IIRC a level 19 fighter with Exotic Weapon proficiency is needed for MA Exotic.

As for leathercrafting: make a druid. Pure druids are MUCH better than pure rangers. The two easiest crafting skills to build to MA are leather and arcane because they can be reached with pure casting classes and pure casters are much better here than pure tanks or pure dex character.