Need help with first "serious" build

[Cyrian]

Hi everyone. Nice PW! I'm new and trying to decide what I want to build here. I started an Aasimar paladin/CoT but I'm thinking about rolling a different toon. Any help, advice, and experience with the following builds would be amazingly helpful. I'm basically looking for a good melee toon with survivability and a good AB/AC. Would prefer decent saves too.

Weapon Master: thinking maybe 11rog/7monk/22wm, something like that? any tips on which weapon of choice is best for a dex build? str build?

RDD: was thinking straight bard/RDD. how far should i go with the RDD levels? are the shifter-like abilities worth deep RDD levels? are RDDs worth it in general compared to shifters?

Blackguard: how do these function best in combat (2h, dual wield, etc)? maybe 10bard/30bg? how high should cha end up being?

SD: i'm guessing rogue with 5 or so SD levels is effective? also monk perhaps? how well does this build's AB stack up?

STR builds in general: how are they most useful on this server? are monk levels a must for them if they're using 2h?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: just so you know, i have read over much of the wiki already.

[Shadowalker]

you forgot to mention if your building for PvP or PvM.

dex builds.. rapier, kama, kurki, small hammer, etc......... all with a ranged attack option ie sling, bow, etc
-wpn master 7 or 13 lvls common 7 for base 13 for second wpn of choice
-rogue 13 is the sweet spot there, build for epic dodge

RDD.. can greatly enhance any str mele build.. if building for dragon, your need mass RDD lvls and be ready for a toon that blossoms late.
-Shifter vairaint, no cross classin outside of druid/shifter.. but much easier and funner to lvl

SD, you can sd just about anything, surpurb PvM tool, can also be great for PvP, almost a requirement for bridge trolls. Since SD has the hips power, your find a large population of spoter builds among your fellow players.

Most common str builds are the pure fighter and barbarain.. sugest you be completely proficient with both a two handded and one handed with shield under those two options.

Untill you know more about the million and one changes that exist here. You might consider making a Str based Cleric, for saves toss in some paladin, cot, or blackguard and use divine might/shield. For beging players its a prime first option. Your cleric buffs will not only make you a valuable asset to any party (lving in epic areas is 99% party based) but the spells will help fill in any gaps in your gear. Your str will allow you to collect lots of loot the dex based toons have to leave behind so your be well funded, as well as setting aside gear for next builds. Lastly, you can not buy RD scrolls, so having a cleric will give you a means of making your own. No feats or skills are required for scroll crafting in NS4.

Good luck... and dont expect to get a truely sweet build till you have some time to learn the variants we have on this amazing server. Also, no single build rules.. it takes a team of well cordinated companions to prevail in relic warfare or epic PVM.

[Cyrian]

Woops, sorry! I'm building for PvP in the end. I think my CoT will be able to survive well enough in PvM without a perfect build.

Thanks for the info on the RDDs, SDs, and WMs. You answered a lot of my q's.

Any insights into bg? i wouldn't mind running around with an epic summon and a hally or scythe doing some sneaks. 1 or 2 rogue levels for evasion maybe.

[Shadowalker]

black guards have the second most powerfull summon on server.. PM being number one.

The requirements for said summon are listed on wiki. After that, the direction you take is up to your style.

[LinuxPup]

Despite what you may have heard about Pale Masters being nerfed, they're still a good class to play with, and are still tough... crit immunity can't be understated.

[Cyrian]

indeed Linux i've scanned over the posts regarding them, but i also understand people tend to exaggerate when trying to make a point. i think they'd be fine to work with, i just want to wait and build mine carefully. for now i think i'm tempted to go with a weapon master build.

[mining]

Linux makes it sound like PMs don't gte that much AC anymore... You should be able to get 81 with a strength build, while retaining ~ 64ish AB. Here's a tip: clerics are really good at giving AB to low BAB builds.

[Cyrian]

Alright, so I drew up a rog/ftr/wm from the info ITT and a few helpful pms exchanged. Let me know what you think!

Code: Select all

Tiefling 13Rogue/20Ftr/7WM - all levelup ability points into dex

Tested starting ability scores - 15str/19dex/14con/13int/8wis/8cha


1. Rogue - Dodge, ambi

2. Ftr - Mobility

3. Ftr - Exotic Weaps, Weapon Finesse

4. Ftr (+1 Dex)  

5. Ftr - Spring Attack

6. Ftr - Expertise

7. Ftr - WF: kukri

8. Ftr

9. Ftr - Whirlwind, WS: kukri

10. Ftr 

11. Ftr - TWF

12. Rogue (+1 Dex) - ITWF

13. Rogue

14. Ftr - Power Attack

15. WM - WoC: kukri

16. WM 

17. WM - Knockdown

18. WM

19. WM

20. Ftr - Imp Power Attack

21. rog - EWF: kukri

22. rog 

23. rog 

24. rog - Epic Prowess

25. rog

26. rog 

27. rog - Imp Crit: kukri

28. WM

29. WM 

30. Ftr - Imp Knockdown  

31. Ftr - ??? (Armor Skin somewhere in here)

32. Ftr - ???

33. Ftr - Epic Weapon Spec: Kukri

34. Ftr - Cleave (or toughness)

35. Ftr - 

36. Ftr - Blinding Speed, Imp Whirlwind

37. Rog

38. Ftr

39. Rog - imp evasion, epic dodge!!!!

40. Ftr - free feat, maybe Blind Fight or Imp Parry


---------------------------------------------------


Final base abilities: 15/29/14/13/8/8

Final skills

Disc: 43
Conc: 43
Parry: 43
Spot: 42
Tumble: 40
UMD: 42

Final saves

Fort 22
Reflex 30
Will 15

Final base AC: 28

Final BAB: +29

Final Attack: +40/+35/+30/+25 (+40/+35 OH)

   Critical: (13-20)x3    yikes!

SR: 0

The final attack would actually be a little higher because vanilla nwn of course doesn't add in the tiefling bonuses, and i didnt think to just mod them in. i was really happy with how the feats turned out. i just don't know how high i'll be able to get this guy's AB.

[Shadowalker]

dump parry.. pointless skill/ability with the way the game mechanics work, even if your one on one your gonna end up regreting.

you didnt list lvl 10 rogue feat deffinsive roll (required for edodge)

dump imp wirlwind.

definatly take blind fight (must for any mele build, and most others)

your saves are horrible.. consider droping things like epic wpn spec, for epic fort and epic will

[burrahobbit]

Take epic skill focus discipline, or you'll be donating weapons

[frogofpeace]

What they said

I would put the points you have in parry into spellcraft to help your saves.

Put more exclamation points after epic dodge

I think I'd move 10 or 12 fighter levels to either rog or wm

[Bargeld]

20mk/13rg/7wm rapier ftw!

this toon --------------------------------------------------------V

[mining]

Never take weapon spec, epic weapon spec IMO, because its 6 damage for 2 feats. Personally I'd rather have +6 fort, or +4 will, +4 fort.

I also wouldn't take PA/IPA, 10 AB for 10 damage is an awful trade. See WS/EWS above. See improved Expertise and saves feats.

Cleave, def. go toughness over cleave. Wait, let me correct that: BLIND FIGHT!

Drop IWA for another saves feat or something like that. Blind Fight is essential. Also, parry sucks. It is the worst skill in the game. You activate it, you start losing fights.

Also, having even final abilities will help, i.e 14 Str, 30 dex, 14 con, 13 int, 8/8

Definitely take ESF disc, and probably even ESF spot to see things easily.


With 29 BAB and 30 dex, allowing for dex mod (42-10/2=16) will get you:

29 BAB + 16 dex mod (staffs UMDable) + 4 feats + 1 WM + 6 weapon + 1 blinding
=57 AB self buffed
with final level gear.
After party buffs:
+5 song +3 AVA
=65 AB team buffed.
In desperate AB situations, you can use DF scrolls for another 2 AB.

[Rufio]

what everyone else said.

Blinding speed, blind fight, and epic skill focus: discipline are essential. spellcraft definately, and anything to boost fort and will, because your saves are going to be the pits.

no parry, no improved whirlwind, no power attack, no cleave, no toughness those all suck (I don't mind toughness if there are feats to spare and everything else looks ok, but you need some things still)

I don't mind weapon specialization myself, not super powerful, but helpful since you won't do much damage when you aren't crit-ing.

You can take epic fighter feats with your bonus fighter feats in epic levels even with less than 20 fighter levels. i noticed all your fighter bonus feats are non-epic in epic levels. (excuse the big print, and sorry if you already knew, but, I didn't want you to miss that.)

Consider githzerai as a race for +4 ac and weapon finesse for free, though the int decrease hurts, might need an int book for that.

[Amoenotep]

+40 hp comes in handy when some evil doer tries to kill you with power word kill and thats all that saves you