Weapon Master

[uFiS]

Is there a good reason to take more than 7 levels of weapon master? How about taking 30 levels of weapon master?

[Lorkar]

Other than getting a second weapon of choice at WM 13 there is no good reason to go beyond 7. I have a 34th toon with 21 WM and he blows chunks unless he is buffed by others, but by humself he is lucky to solo giants sanctum.

[LinuxPup]

Yes... higher AB. I've seen some awesome characters with 26 or so WM levels.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Only way to get over 80 AB with a melee weapon is with high amounts of wpn master levels.

[Rufio]

You get a super high ab, which is definitely useful when it seems like the standard anymore is for builds to have 70+ ac. Make it a dexer wm and you get the super high ab and a good ac. Throw in some rogue levels for UMD and you can buff yourself. Saves might be a little suspect, but otherwise you'll come out with a solid build

I think it is a beginners mistake to neglect ab a little bit. each point of ab really does make a big difference, especially against the super high AC build that you can barely hit.

[Lokey]

Epic feat at 1/3 levels is a good deal too. With a UMD class they're fine, my saves were suspect with the rogue I made back when (stupid Linux's demands...).

[Dalan]

The higher your AB, the better you are at KD, Called Shot, and Disarm.

So, with a +1 to AB for every 3 levels after level 10 Weapon Master, that's pretty good reason, yes.

[Celorn]

5 levels = multiplier increased but not crit range
7 levels = all the base bonuses multiplier and crit range
13 levels = base bonuses on 2 weapons (or can be used for a free epic feat)
22 levels = moar AB - i've used this once; paladin/rog/wm22 - very well balanced toon.
28 levels = max bonus AB, no point going beyond 28. good for a damage/support build like FTR/rog/wm28 - certain saves are quite nerfed at this point, so you must build carefully to fix that or always be with a party that can help balance it out.
30 levels = woo 2 more ki hits per rest, not really worth it.

[Bargeld]

At lvl 5 you get an extra +1 ab also.
When choosing a second WoC, you will still be missing the base weapon focus (required for WoC), improved crit, as well as epic weapon focus (missing a total of +3 ab and an extra crit range).

[Celorn]

At lvl 5 you get an extra +1 ab also.
When choosing a second WoC, you will still be missing the base weapon focus (required for WoC), improved crit, as well as epic weapon focus (missing a total of +3 ab and an extra crit range).

yah, the ab increase starts there and continues on as you add more WM lvls..

I'm not following? how will you be missing the base weapon focus you NEED it to take the feat? I've made many WMs, many with double or more weapon focuses fully or partially realized -- some times I would focus one weapon to max out crits, and the other for base damage (for crit immunes) but both with max AB possible, PLUS if you're smart when building, you can fit in all the feats, well most, that you need, remember you get a bonus feat on 13,16,19,etc... for WM so you can use some of those for EWF and epic prowess.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

in fact when you get to about lvl 22 wm you almost have to choose a second WoC otherwise you'll start burning feats on Epic Toughness. for WM either go low (7 or 5) or high (22, 25 or 28). middle of the road doesn't get you much.

- glow -

[Bargeld]

Actually, its kinda funny that I finished the rough draft of a new WM for myself earlier this morning... My point was that you will need to do more than just choose a 2nd WoC if you want it to be an equivalent weapon to the 1st one.

You are required to take weap focus in the 2nd weapon (this was more of a heads-up, so that you aren't at lvl 25 having to take a basic weapon focus).
If you want max crit range you will need to take that seperately too.
If you want the other +2 you will need to take EWF in it.

Basically just a heads up that you will need to burn 3 feats for a true/equal 2nd weapon. And the trade-off, as Glow mentions, is that you don't really have many other choices (and he is right, its toughness or something totally defunct). Personally, I'd rather have the 2x toughness and 2x basic feats.

[Celorn]

The finesse WM I did up a while back only takes epic toughness 1, but also only focuses on a single weapon....

26: Weapon Master(13): blinding speed
29: Weapon Master(16): epic weapon focus: something!
32: Weapon Master(19): DEX+1, armor skin
35: Weapon Master(22): epic prowess
40: Weapon Master(25): DEX+1, epic toughness I

so 4 epic WM feats can free up some 4 regular epic feats, not too bad either...if you can handle the low will saves somehow.

[Rufio]

use that extra feat on planar turning. You'll never regret it.

[mining]

use that extra feat on planar turning. You'll never regret it.

No sir, take 5 ranger levels, and take ICC and ESF animal empathy.